Prius Recall due to floor mats? 2 yrs ago Prius owners said there's more to it than that...

[philobeddoe]

Originally Posted by tumbleweed

I wondered about that also, I have tried this test before but I wasn't sure I had done it at full throttle. So yesterday I got up to about 40 MPH held the throttle to the floor and put it in N. No problems whatever, it goes into Neutral in 1 second (not 2 seconds as previously reported in other threads), the engine slows to idle speed, and everything keeps working just fine, as Philobeddoe reported above. I repeated the test several times and it works the same way each time. When you see it works you can just go back to D and drive on down the road. Give it a try.

I have used the power button to do the test also, as Fstr911 describes, my results were the same as he posted. If you decide to do a test using the power button you need to be going fast enough so the car doesn't actually try to go int park, anything over 10 MPH is fine. But as everyone else has suggested N is the best choice anyway because it's quicker.

It should also be said that if your throttle is stuck wide open you can stop the car with the brakes. You have to put them on good and hard and they will have more than enough power to overcome the engine, even on cars with a lot more power that our Prius. The way you could get into trouble would be if you just applied the brakes part way, then they might overheat to the point where they wouldn't work any more.

you are not going to be able to stop the car with the brakes if the floor mat is OVER the accelerator and UNDER the brake ... as forcing the brake to the floor serves to force the accelerator to the floor, but does not allow the brake to be fully depressed ... you are in fact telling the EFI to go to WOT, and you're glazing the brakes ...

and this is why the Lexus failed

there is no hardware error, there is no software glitch

[Earman]

Originally Posted by philobeddoe

you are not going to be able to stop the car with the brakes if the floor mat is OVER the accelerator and UNDER the brake ... as forcing the brake to the floor serves to force the accelerator to the floor, but does not allow the brake to be fully depressed ... you are in fact telling the EFI to go to WOT, and you're glazing the brakes ...

and this is why the Lexus failed

there is no hardware error, there is no software glitch

It would be really exceptional that ALL the cases of runaway throttle which have hapened had a mat stuck the way described above. I really don't think a software glitch can be ruled out even if it cannot be demonstrated...

[rachaelseven]

Originally Posted by Earman

It would be really exceptional that ALL the cases of runaway throttle which have hapened had a mat stuck the way described above. I really don't think a software glitch can be ruled out even if it cannot be demonstrated...

If phantom theoretical possibilities is the standard we're going by, then we also have to include the possibilities of divine intervention (maybe god just didn't like them) or alien interference. After all, these possibilities can't be demonstrated either, but I really don't think they should be ruled out... they are possible, after all.

[philobeddoe]

Originally Posted by Earman

It would be really exceptional that ALL the cases of runaway throttle which have hapened had a mat stuck the way described above. I really don't think a software glitch can be ruled out even if it cannot be demonstrated...

you don't have to rule out anything

you can continue to look for demons in the shadows and under the bed, and plaintiff attorneys can spend years gouging toyota and other manufacturers with conspiracy theories

BUT there has never been a case of a surging accelerator that was proven ... sure we can debate burdens of proof, there are plenty of lawyers here, myself included ... and there are plenty of experienced gear heads, computer geeks and mechanics as well ... me again

BUT there has never been a case of a surging accelerator

it is PILOT ERROR

like i said, at the appropriate time you can PM me my crow, i'll take it with BBQ sauce and a side of fries

BUT it is PILOT ERROR

hit NEUTRAL or die ... that's what all the cool kids know

[Earman]

Originally Posted by rachaelseven

If phantom theoretical possibilities is the standard we're going by, then we also have to include the possibilities of divine intervention (maybe god just didn't like them) or alien interference. After all, these possibilities can't be demonstrated either, but I really don't think they should be ruled out... they are possible, after all.

LOL! I am sure you never experienced any undocumented software bug with any of your computers so far and that your OS has never ever crashed without reason... It will surely never happen to you, unless there is an evil intervention of course!

Computer glitches do happen (even on airplanes computers) and some are almost impossible to replicate, with or without divine intervention, ask a programmer (I did beta testing of software and hardware for over 10 years)! It may or may not be related to the runaway throttle problem, I don't know but I do believe that no one can tell 100% surely right now.

There will soon be a definitive answer to the problem anyway. If the problem is really caused by floor mats, now that they have been removed and/or secured we should not have any case of runaway throttle in the coming years. If there are no more problems after the "floor mat cure" , then there never was a computer glitch to start with, it's that easy!

[philobeddoe]

Originally Posted by Earman

LOL! I am sure you never experienced any undocumented software bug with any of your computers so far and that your OS has never ever crashed without reason... It will surely never happen to you, unless there is an evil intervention of course!

Computer glitches do happen (even on airplanes computers) and some are almost impossible to replicate, with or without divine intervention, ask a programmer (I did beta testing of software and hardware for over 10 years)! It may or may not be related to the runaway throttle problem, I don't know but I do believe that no one can tell 100% surely right now.

There will soon be a definitive answer to the problem anyway. If the problem is really caused by floor mats, now that they have been removed and/or secured we should not have any case of runaway throttle in the coming years. If there are no more problems after the "floor mat cure" , then there never was a computer glitch to start with, it's that easy!

you're right

[fuzzy1]

Originally Posted by rachaelseven

If phantom theoretical possibilities is the standard we're going by, then we also have to include the possibilities of divine intervention (maybe god just didn't like them) or alien interference. After all, these possibilities can't be demonstrated either, but I really don't think they should be ruled out... they are possible, after all.

In vehicle runaways, mechanical failures have been demonstrated. In a larger context, electrical failures, software errors, and EMC problems have been demonstrated with tragic consequences.

As much as many posters here wish it to be so, I've found it extremely unusual that after tens of thousands of detected faults, that exactly two fault modes (e.g. pilot error and floor mats) can account for precisely and exactly 100.000% of the faults.

Even when scarce, there are usually a few more devils hidden in there. And if any one incident is likely to be the case where such a devil is identified, it is likely to involve a so-called highly trained, professional driver. That is why I object to this Kangaroo Kourt passing sentence before the sheriff's investigation report is even written.

[philobeddoe]

the simple explanation is often the correct and only explanation ... strange indeed

cue the kangaroos ...

[fuzzy1]

the simple explanation is often the correct and only explanation ... strange indeed

cue the kangaroos ...

'Often' is not identical to 'Always'.

Juries are often correct. But they are not always correct, which is why the Innocence Project is kept so busy springing prisoners from death row.

Despite this, many folks keep complaining about the execution delays that kept these inmates alive long enough to prove their innocence. Unfortunately for Cameron Todd Willingham, the appeals didn't cause enough delay.

[philobeddoe]

Originally Posted by fuzzy1

'Often' is not identical to 'Always'.

Juries are often correct. But they are not always correct, which is why the Innocence Project is kept so busy springing prisoners from death row.

Despite this, many folks keep complaining about the execution delays that kept these inmates alive long enough to prove their innocence. Unfortunately for Cameron Todd Willingham, the appeals didn't cause enough delay.

Barry Scheck and Peter Neufeld were my trial and ethics professors in law school, so I appreciate the reference.

And I've been involved in capital cases, and even ruled on habeas corpus motions as a clerk in the federal court.

Let's not elevate this "conspiracy" to the level of a capital case

Your point is well made, and suggesting we should reserve judgment is sound.

Nevertheless, a responsible driver has an escape route (NEUTRAL)
and I remain skeptical of surging Toyotas based upon historical precedent and experience ... BLINK.