If the price of diesel was lower than gasoline's would you still buy a Prius?

[priusphil]

Originally Posted by vahrn

Most people in my country keep saying that buying a Prius here is stupid since diesel is cheaper than gasoline, and diesel engines tend to be more efficient than gasoline engines and as much as efficient as a hybrid.

So let's imagine that fuel prices were the following (current average prices in my country):

Diesel: EUR 1,168 - USD 1,7207 per liter
Gasoline: EUR 1,324 - USD 1,9505 per liter

Let's imagine also that a high efficiency diesel like BMW's is considered by the law as much as polluting as a hybrid, my question is:

Would you still buy a Prius?

I prefer to have them both, moving away from prius is 2 step backward away from advancing technology.

[GoGreenTreeHugger]

Originally Posted by vahrn

Most people in my country keep saying that buying a Prius here is stupid since diesel is cheaper than gasoline, and diesel engines tend to be more efficient than gasoline engines and as much as efficient as a hybrid.

So let's imagine that fuel prices were the following (current average prices in my country):

Diesel: EUR 1,168 - USD 1,7207 per liter
Gasoline: EUR 1,324 - USD 1,9505 per liter

Let's imagine also that a high efficiency diesel like BMW's is considered by the law as much as polluting as a hybrid, my question is:

Would you still buy a Prius?

Ok here's my take on it. I'm naught a prius cause I want to help the environment.

Now reason for not going to a desil car is simple. Ok so gas & desil is expensive cause were running out. Well if we start using the desil that 18 wheelers us the there's will deplete faster and what will happen. The price of desil will be higher than it already is. And then to got to the store and buy something that might cost 10$ will now be 20$ or 30$ more than usual. Cause the desil trucks transporting all that has to charge the people they dilever to more than usual. So I would use desil.

(sorry it's not the very best answer. Me and my friend did a full report on it I will post that later when I have time. This is just a brief look.)

[Indyking]

Originally Posted by vahrn

Audis are rebadged VWs with some good leather and super expensive options. They call themselves sporty and yet all they have are some fake AWD cars (front + rear if looses traction) or FWD, no RWD which is the only sporty configuration. Every model has way too many engine options: you can't have a chassis that can cope with 90 bhp engines as well as 270 bhp engines. And I don't like compromises: if a want a sports car I buy a sports car, not a car which pretends to be everything and ends up to be nothing. Given the price they ask for a rebadged Golf I'd take a BMW over an Audi any day of the week. RWD, proper engines, near to perfect weight distribution, great road feeling. In a word: substance.

I somewhat disagree. Last year, we got a very severe snow storm here and even my AWD CR-V got stuck when trying to leave to work. A few others AWD cars got stuck too but we were helped by a neighbor with an Audi Q7 with Quattro who pulled us away from the ditches. The Quattro system is considered revolutionary and anyone who has had it before can tell you the difference. Even in high speeds, Quattro makes lot of difference. The Torsen-based Quattro delivers a more stable turn on high speeds under deceleration resulting in less risk of losing control due to loss of grip in the front or rear axles.

Regarding quality, I believe Audi reliability is a lot better than VW in the US. That close friend of mine I was talking about earlier, who enjoys and affords switching among luxury cars frequently; is pretty much riding just Audis nowadays because that's the one he have had better experiences with reliability over years and the driving experience in Audis is really unparallel in his opinion. One more thing... I just learned from my neighbor yesterday that changing the oil in his Q7 is cheaper than in my Prius...

Regarding the cost, yes I aggree that options are often expensive, but so it is in any luxury brand because they really have superior quality. Don't forget though that some basic models of Audis comes loaded with lots of features and they cost less than Prius V.

[qbee42]

Have Audi's gotten better in the reliability department? It's been awhile, but my family and friends that used to have Audi's were always on a first name basis with their mechanics. Those beasts loved the repair shop.

Tom

[Indyking]

Originally Posted by qbee42

Have Audi's gotten better in the reliability department? It's been awhile, but my family and friends that used to have Audi's were always on a first name basis with their mechanics. Those beasts loved the repair shop.

Tom

A personal opinion is a personal opinion...

My Brother has an Audi, no problems so far at 65K, 4 year-old A4, my neighboor has a Q7, much newer but it replaced a 8-yer-old troble free A4, my priviledged friend has had many Audis, BMWs, LEXUS, Etc before and he's sticking with Audi...

[F8L]

Originally Posted by Indyking

A personal opinion is a personal opinion...

I think his was more of an observation.

[Indyking]

Originally Posted by F8L

I think his was more of an observation.

Thanks for the correction, I agree. I should have called it an individual bad experience is an individual bad experience...

[vahrn]

Originally Posted by Indyking

I somewhat disagree. Last year, we got a very severe snow storm here and even my AWD CR-V got stuck when trying to leave to work. A few others AWD cars got stuck too but we were helped by a neighbor with an Audi Q7 with Quattro who pulled us away from the ditches. The Quattro system is considered revolutionary and anyone who has had it before can tell you the difference. Even in high speeds, Quattro makes lot of difference. The Torsen-based Quattro delivers a more stable turn on high speeds under deceleration resulting in less risk of losing control due to loss of grip in the front or rear axles.

Regarding quality, I believe Audi reliability is a lot better than VW in the US. That close friend of mine I was talking about earlier, who enjoys and affords switching among luxury cars frequently; is pretty much riding just Audis nowadays because that's the one he have had better experiences with reliability over years and the driving experience in Audis is really unparallel in his opinion. One more thing... I just learned from my neighbor yesterday that changing the oil in his Q7 is cheaper than in my Prius...

Regarding the cost, yes I aggree that options are often expensive, but so it is in any luxury brand because they really have superior quality. Don't forget though that some basic models of Audis comes loaded with lots of features and they cost less than Prius V.

No offense but the CR-V Realtime AWD is far from being a proper benchmark. The benchmark could be the Wragler's AWD or the BMW x-drive, certainly not the CR-V.
Torsen-quattro is good, unfortunately the smaller models with tranversally mounted engines get the Haldex version of the Quattro, which can get you out of bad situations in most cases but it's far from being a proper AWD system. I wasn't complaining about Quattro traction on the wet or on the snow. That's very good in case of torsen and average in case of haldex.

I was complaining about the fact that they put Quattro to overcome the not so good chassis and not so good weight distribution. That's the death of a sports car. I have driven several S3 (old and new), one brought to a wooping 320 bhp, some TTs (including TT-S), a mighty S6 (older model), and an RS4 latest model.
And IMHO they have no right to define themselves sports car. The handling is so fake and Quattro will never overcome the feeling of a proper RWD coupled with a well balanced weight distribution.

Yes they charge you more because they are a luxury brand. But what are you offering you? Recycled chassises with some bells and whistles to pump up the price and make you forget that they are infact rebadged VWs. Yes Audis tends to be more reliable that VWs.

The Q7 thing sounds fishy to me. It might be due to the long life oil they use which has to be changed after 30.000 km, so it might be cheaper than the Prius 15k km intervals in the end. Whoever has a little knowledge about engines knows that changing oil every 30k is madness. Have you ever seen oil after that interval? I did. Looks like liquefied tarmac... Most guys I know with Audis change their first oil at 10.000 km to remove break-in particles and then every 15-20 km. Even on Porsches you can change oil every 30k. After 30.000 km on the same oil your mpg will skyrocket and performance will decrease. Tested on a friend's Cayman.

Audi has got many lovers and many haters. As a former Porsche owner I belong to the second group. Porsche offers you an unrefined experience with lots of fun, Audi sportier models an aseptic and somehow fake experience in a very refined package.

[Indyking]

Originally Posted by vahrn

No offense but the CR-V Realtime AWD is far from being a proper benchmark. The benchmark could be the Wragler's AWD or the BMW x-drive, certainly not the CR-V.
Torsen-quattro is good, unfortunately the smaller models with tranversally mounted engines get the Haldex version of the Quattro, which can get you out of bad situations in most cases but it's far from being a proper AWD system. I wasn't complaining about Quattro traction on the wet or on the snow. That's very good in case of torsen and average in case of haldex.

I was complaining about the fact that they put Quattro to overcome the not so good chassis and not so good weight distribution. That's the death of a sports car. I have driven several S3 (old and new), one brought to a wooping 320 bhp, some TTs (including TT-S), a mighty S6 (older model), and an RS4 latest model.
And IMHO they have no right to define themselves sports car. The handling is so fake and Quattro will never overcome the feeling of a proper RWD coupled with a well balanced weight distribution.

Yes they charge you more because they are a luxury brand. But what are you offering you? Recycled chassises with some bells and whistles to pump up the price and make you forget that they are infact rebadged VWs. Yes Audis tends to be more reliable that VWs.

The Q7 thing sounds fishy to me. It might be due to the long life oil they use which has to be changed after 30.000 km, so it might be cheaper than the Prius 15k km intervals in the end. Whoever has a little knowledge about engines knows that changing oil every 30k is madness. Have you ever seen oil after that interval? I did. Looks like liquefied tarmac... Most guys I know with Audis change their first oil at 10.000 km to remove break-in particles and then every 15-20 km. Even on Porsches you can change oil every 30k. After 30.000 km on the same oil your mpg will skyrocket and performance will decrease. Tested on a friend's Cayman.

Audi has got many lovers and many haters. As a former Porsche owner I belong to the second group. Porsche offers you an unrefined experience with lots of fun, Audi sportier models an aseptic and somehow fake experience in a very refined package.

Great post, thanks. I can't really comment on the sports driving experience but you are in a much better position to comment on that, I have never had a sports car in my life. I don't really consider the Audis I have driven from friends and brother (A3, A4, and Q5), all with Quattro, sports cars because I’m not even sure how a true sports car feels. All I can say is that I have never had more pleasure driving any car in my life as I have had with Audis, somehow it fells very solid, responsive, and quiet with great sound systems and impressive gadgetry. . . Very nice cars in my opinion. And with all the rattles in my Prius now, I do regret not waiting for the A3 TDI.

Regarding the oil change, I’m not sure what interval my neighbor uses in his Q7 but I doubt it is less than 5K (the Prius is 5K as we all know), but all I know is that he paid $75 for his last oil change and I paid $85 for my Prius.