Anyone notice the Energy Flow display lies?

[Dan.]

On the Gen III while in a WS-Glide, I see red arrows going too the wheels FROM the engine. This is a change in how WS was displayed in the Gen II. For the Gen II, in a WS-Glide all you got were yellow arrows (battery to generator to wheel). Since WS turns off the injectors, I don't see how energy can really be coming from the ICE. At best its dead weight.

Since I only get Gen III wheel-time by beg-borrow-or-steal, I can't really refine my one-time observation.

Anyone confirm?

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[a64pilot]

What were you using to determine the engine injector / ignition was off? Without determining that how can you be sure you were in Warp Stealth?
My Auto-tap should be here in a few days, with it I can tell ignition timing, fuel injector pulse width, RPM, Percent throttle opening, percent engine load etc. Or I hope I can, I'll order when confirmed it will give generic data for the Gen III Prius.
Without some form of feed back, I don't know how you can be certain your in WS. Your engine may be consuming fuel, yet FCD may still display in excess of 99 MPG, or I'm confused

[Dan.]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

What were you using to determine the engine injector / ignition was off? Without determining that how can you be sure you were in Warp Stealth?
My Auto-tap should be here in a few days, with it I can tell ignition timing, fuel injector pulse width, RPM, Percent throttle opening, percent engine load etc. Or I hope I can, I'll order when confirmed it will give generic data for the Gen III Prius.
Without some form of feed back, I don't know how you can be certain your in WS. Your engine may be consuming fuel, yet FCD may still display in excess of 99 MPG, or I'm confused

All valid points. All we saw were from the standard ODB II gauges, none of the extended CAN information.

I think we were noting an RPM < 980 and registering Open Loop. Both have historically been indications that Toyota HSD Hybrids are not drinking fuel. Could be totally different but it leads to even more questions....

I guess one of two things:

• The Energy Flow display is misleading or lying
• Or... The Gen III doesn't have the same fingerprint of WS as the other HSD hybrids do (certainly possible, maybe probable)

If the fingerprint has changed, I propose another question... Does the Gen III have WS and has this been confirmed outside of the fingerprint mentioned above (ie, someone tapped the injector pin and is measuring voltage on it).

Again, these were passing observations on a car I don't own or have access to, but I thought some of the Gen III techs might want to noodle on it.

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[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Dan.

I guess one of two things:

• The Energy Flow display is misleading or lying
• Or... The Gen III doesn't have the same fingerprint of WS as the other HSD hybrids do (certainly possible, maybe probable)

If the fingerprint has changed, I propose another question... Does the Gen III have WS and has this been confirmed outside of the fingerprint mentioned above (ie, someone tapped the injector pin and is measuring voltage on it).

Again, these were passing observations on a car I don't own or have access to, but I thought some of the Gen III techs might want to noodle on it.

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Does WS exist? kind of what I was thinking too. Unfortunately all I will have is generic OBDII info as well, but I think it should be enough. I think Ken from Japan (apologize if I got it wrong) has wired an LED into the injection harness to have an "engine on" light, He knows, I'm sure. As I have heard nothing on the non existence of WS, one assumes it's still there.
Oh, I looked and your right, stage 4 speed above 50 MPH, just barely in the battery portion of the HSI, and red arrows from the engine with FCD maxed out.
I also wonder if the HSI isn't variable, that is a constant placement of the "bar" on the HSI may have different values or power output based on vehicle speed? Gut feeling, with NO science is it isn't a constant.
Course I'm probably just full of it

[spiderman]

I thought WS on the Gen III was indicated by no reading on the HSI and no arrows on the display yet still having forward motion, yes?
I can get that to happen heading down a slight hill around 53 mph.

[FireEngineer]

The Gen III does inject fuel during WS conditions. I believe ken1784 and his fuel injection LED indicator showed that.

Wayne

[Dan.]

Originally Posted by spiderman

I thought WS on the Gen III was indicated by no reading on the HSI and no arrows on the display yet still having forward motion, yes?
I can get that to happen heading down a slight hill around 53 mph.

OK... must be technique... WS is usually pretty easy to land. Personally I'm still not totally convinced that the Energy display is 100% honest, but I'm a Gen II owner, so I may be biased

Originally Posted by FireEngineer

The Gen III does inject fuel during WS conditions. I believe ken1784 and his fuel injection LED indicator showed that.

Wouldn't that be more of a SHM than a WS glide?

As I mentioned... I didn't have that much wheel time. Are there any Gen III owners that can check RPM / Open-Closed-Loop / Injector ? I take it Ken got a Gen III this year

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[FireEngineer]

The energy display in any generation has never been totally honest at showing true conditions. The HSI is a non-linear read out that also will not tell the whole truth, it's just a guide. Instruments are needed and right now the ScanGage is the only one for the Gen III, unless you have a Mastertech laptop.

Wayne

[Dan.]

Originally Posted by FireEngineer

The energy display in any generation has never been totally honest at showing true conditions.

No kiddin! I use my MFD less and less every day. Anyway... Could you bring up "LP", "RPM" and possibly Hobbits "INJ" gauge. All should work in the Gen III. I'm not sure what INJ should read at WS, but I sure Hobbit will have the decoder on that one.

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[hobbit]

In the second-gen, injector time reads whatever it happened to
be during the spasm of engine shutdown or fuel-cut, i.e. it's
one of those values that the ECU holds when it isn't being actively
updated.
.
I also observed that the gen3 energy display is a total fallacy.
Use the HSI.
.
_H*