2002 Power Steering failure

[HarryK]

Just bought a 2002 Prius. Nearly showroom condition, one-owner who was dedicated to every oil change, scheduled service, and little problem ever found being promptly performed by dealer.

Next day the power steering failed (yesterday/Saturday).

So the steering had been making like a rubber-squeak noise when turned to the right at low speeds.
Owner noticed it 3 years ago and took it to the dealer.

Here's their "repair":
"Constant squeak from steering when turning. Noise internal from steering rack. Non-repairable. No mechanical problems found. Just noise. Works fine. No repairs at this time."

That was just before the car was 4 years old, with 110,000 miles.
Now it has 174,000 miles.

I was driving, and the wheel started to sort of pulse in my hands like it was gaining/losing power assist.
About 10 minutes later, failed. Big PS button on display, with the red triangle by the odometer.
Then in a few minutes it said "Problem solved".
Then it would fail/solve, fail/solve.
I tried turning the key to accessory to cycle the engine but then the engine would not start again, until I took the key out and started from Off.

Made it home, now I have to decide what to do in the morning.

One side note that is not comforting.
Both times I drove the car was for about an hour.
After each time, when I parked it and got out, I could smell a burning plastic type of odor. Not too strong, but still very noticeable.

So...

Should this be a warranty repair since the dealer failed to fix it years ago?

Would it be better to have the original owner take it in or call Toyota? (I have the receipt but afraid they'll blow me off as not the owner at the time)

Am I looking at a steering column, rack, ECU?

Would it help to look for used parts if it is the "big repair" and I'm paying?

Don't think it matters but the owner also had these done:
- Main battery recall service to seal it or something
- Auxiliary battery was replaced with a kit ($400!)
- Fuel bladder was replaced ($1200 with a used part!)

Thanks for any help.
Harry

Really liked the car for that first hour, but now I'm scared reading about the cost of repairs on this thing...

[bwilson4web]

Originally Posted by HarryK

Just bought a 2002 Prius. . . .

Next day the power steering failed (yesterday/Saturday).

So the steering had been making like a rubber-squeak noise when turned to the right at low speeds. . . .

That was just before the car was 4 years old, with 110,000 miles.
. . .
I was driving, and the wheel started to sort of pulse in my hands like it was gaining/losing power assist.. . . .

One weakness found in the earliest NHW11 endurance tests was a steering failure. Actually, the torque encoders on the steering shaft become noisy and this causes the pulsing.

The fix is a little over $1,000 for the part and then labor on top of that. I don't of anyone who has gotten a salvage part and done the repair.

The only known workaround is to spoof the sensors, replacing them by a fixed resistor network, and then driving the car in manual steering. There has been one report of this being used. Given the small weight of the car, this can work while planning on a proper steering repair action.

Sorry but the options on a failing steering encoder are not that good.

Bob Wilson

[tochatihu]

I suppose that you could drive the car in manual steering mode at any time by just removing the EMPS fuse? You would get the warning display continuously.

On the highway it is no problem to steer Prius w/o power assist. In low speed maneuvers or parallel parking, a moderate degree of arm strength is required. Perhaps a notch above 'moderate"?

[HarryK]

Thanks for the info, already helpful.

Three questions:

1) Is it something Toyota should have done 3 years ago when it started squeaking?
- if not I guess it's just bad news for me. Even if it is their fault, I don't want to aggravate myself by wasting time and energy hassling with them if you guys think there's little hope of getting them to help out.


2) What exactly should I expect to be replaced?
- meaning what parts should I look for, or tell my mechanic to order.


3) Should I be concerned about that burning smell after a drive?
- don't know how normal that is.

Thanks again.
I really don't think the owner knew this was going to happen, and the price was good so I'll consider it just a freak event that happens in life sometimes...

[bwilson4web]

I believe a steering problem would have fallen under the 3/36000 warranty. I seriously doubt you'll have much success with Toyota assistance.

I don't have the part number handy and would recommend getting the Toyota Maintenance Manuals. Volume 2 has the parts and that is your best roadmap.

For burning smell, look to see if maybe some oil spilled on a recent change? Really, there isn't enough information to tell.

Bob Wilson

[HarryK]

I have the AllData for my car, so maybe I can look around in that. I guess I was thinking the part name would be good enough, and wasn't sure if I need an ECU, torque sensor, potentiometer, or the other names I've seen mentioned here related to steering repairs. If it's just a "steering assembly" and nothing more, hopefully that's enough to identify it.

Not sure my mechanic's ever worked on a Prius, so I don't know if you guys think that's a bad idea. He is careful and does good work and sends me elsewhere for things he thinks are better handled by a specialist, so maybe it would be OK.

The burning smell could be oil, but it sure smells more like plastic.

A new one:
- is it easy for my mechanic to change the transaxle fluid?
I'm really scared about this one because of the huge expense if it is bad. Sounds like I should ask him to capture the old fluid (not sure where to send it for analysis but I can search around these forums some more).

How many Prius' have made it past 200,000 without a failure in something massively expensive like a battery pack, transaxle, or power inverter?

Thanks!

Originally Posted by bwilson4web

I believe a steering problem would have fallen under the 3/36000 warranty. I seriously doubt you'll have much success with Toyota assistance.

I don't have the part number handy and would recommend getting the Toyota Maintenance Manuals. Volume 2 has the parts and that is your best roadmap.

For burning smell, look to see if maybe some oil spilled on a recent change? Really, there isn't enough information to tell.

Bob Wilson

[HarryK]

Update.

So it never ever failed again while the mechanic kept it and drove it for 3 days.
Didn't fail again on me until I'd driven about 500 miles.

So it failed again, self-corrected, failed again, etc.

My mechanic asked exactly what parts you guys thought it would need.

Does it need a steering column to correct the torque sensors?

Does it need a steering rack (this is the actual steering power-assist)?

Does my mechanic need anything else to diagnose this?

Thanks!
Harry

[Patrick Wong]

Hi Harry,

You will need a new steering rack assembly. The potentiometers are located within. No further troubleshooting is needed to diagnose since you said the steering wheel is pulsing around by itself. Its not reasonable to expect a warranty repair since the original complaint had to do with noise and was logged at 110K miles, well after any applicable warranty had expired.

It is a simple matter to change the transaxle fluid. Your mechanic will need 5 qt of Toyota ATF T-IV, two new aluminum washers for the drain and fill plugs, and a new drain pan gasket. You should ask the mechanic to drop the drain pan to clean out the debris within. If possible you might want to be present when the pan is removed so you can see what the interior looks like.

If you see debris other than ferrous metal particles (like plastic insulation bits), that might be early warning of an impending transaxle failure.

Regarding the burning smell, have your mechanic look for an oil leak. If there's no evidence of an oil leak then maybe some electrical component is overheating.

[HarryK]

Thanks Patrick. Repair is now completed.

Dealer wanted almost $1700 for the rack; found a used one from an 03 with 48K miles for $200. Labor is $400 at the dealer or my mechanic.
The dealer said to do a front-end-alignment afterwards.
Is this necessary?


I looked at the transaxle pan residue. My mechanic said it looked pretty good for 174K miles. It was a little bit of dark dust/mud, with about 3 tiny pieces of orange plastic. He said drive til it breaks, cuz right now it's working fine.

Thanks again to everyone who helped.
Harry

[Patrick Wong]

Hi Harry,

Yes, it is reasonable to do a front wheel alignment because the toe-in will be affected with installation of a new steering gear.