Is Chevy Malibu Even a 'Hybrid'?

[Tideland Prius]

Originally Posted by JackDodge

One of those things that they could have put in their cars years and years ago but didn't bother with. That's the Detroit 3 in a nutshell, nineteenth century minds in the 21st century world who can only think three months ahead at a time.

Yep. VW had it in their diesel engines in 1996. They were called eco... something.

[Froley1]

Unfortunately for GM workers flim/flam marketing will not keep the factories open.
Froley

[Evilshin]

Funny thing is that GM Canada claims the Malibu is the most affordable hybrid in it's class...

WTF... in Canada the Malibu "Hybrid" is almost $200 more than the Prius.

The Malibu is listed as a mid sized car. So is the Prius. The Malibu has a smaller cargo volume and identical passenger volume. So WTF...

It's definately cheaper than the Camary Hybrid, but that car is bigger with better fuel efficiency...

Certainly if the Prius is in the same class, both costs the same, and the Prius uses less gas, it's the more affordable one, right?

Hmmm.... maybe GM means that the GM "Hybrid" uses almost as much gas as the non hybrid that you as the end user would just drive it less. Thus you save on the cost of oil changes.

I can tell you both the Aura and the Malibu hybrids are called "mild" hybrids.

They were designed to have none of the long lasting components found in the Prius. Instead they mated a small crank shaft motor with an engine that is hardly efficient. While this configuration works for the civic, the civic uses a CVT and a more efficient engine.

The Aura and Malibu uses a standard hydromatic clutched automatic transmission. Problem is the motor is attached pre-hydromatic clutch. Thus these two cars' electric motors don't do much for fuel efficiency.

Unfortunately the motor's torque can be applied at inopportune speed and gear ratio combination. In other words, an automatic transmission is designed to be matched to an engine's particular optimized torque/rpm ranges. A motor who has a constant torque, upsets this optimization.

Where the civic uses a computer to decide how much motor and engine torque and how much to gear the cvt, the Malibu and Aura can only decide how much to torque the motor and engine. The auto transmission is a physical system beyond the computer's control. Ultimately it's like having two rocket scientists telling a plumber how to fuel a moon rocket.

So why did GM choose such a bad design in they hybrids? Simple, it's the same reason why the EV1 has been scrapped. GM makes most of their money on replacement parts. EV1 didn't have enough parts that can break down despite their engineers being told to make it more complicated...

An automatic transmission is a relic from pre-WWII days. It's only reason for existence today is to increase breakdown probability and increase parts being sold. The simplest auto transmission is a computer controlled manual transmission. So far this system is used in luxury sedans, not on hybrids. Though this set up is cheaper than standard auto transmissions.

By using a standard auto transmission, they are trying to attain standard failure rates. Thus standard profit rates.

But if getting a car whose fuel efficiency is worse than some cars in it's class that are not hybrids at a most affordable hybrid in it's class, as long as you don't count hybrids that are less expensive, kind of price, is your cup of pee, then the Malibooboo is the car for you....

Stupid GM...

[aliendroid]

Originally Posted by Froley1

Unfortunately for GM workers flim/flam marketing will not keep the factories open.
Froley

GM sales are down 15%
Toyota sales are down over 30%

ok?


The malibu is a little bit of a pu$$ie hybrid but that's how they do things they start with the stop/start system like they did in the pickup a while ago. I agree that it shouldn't be called a hybrid.

[qbee42]

Originally Posted by aliendroid

GM sales are down 15%
Toyota sales are down over 30%

<snip>

Percentages are sneaky things. Over what period of time? GM's sales were already in the toilet before this recent downturn. It's hard to have a reduction when you start with nothing.

Tom

[jorgeez]

IMHO, no, it's not a hybrid just yet. I would still choose my Prius anytime of the day.

[jstack]

It's only a MILD HYBRID, It can't move 1 inch on electric but is better than a simple gas vehicle. Maybe some day it will grow into a VOLT series hybrid.

Check FEB 2009 Car and Driver, they also think mild hybrids are the bottom of the barrel, oil that is.

[adric22]

I absolutely believe that GM came out with these "mild hybrids" for a variety of reasons.

First, everytime I go to the Saturn dealership to get my wife's 6-year old Saturn Ion serviced, the sales people try to get me to buy a new car. I tell them I only buy Hybrids now. They immediately respond with "Oh, Saturns make hybrids too!" And I suppose with the average village idiot, that type of thing might persude a few people to go have a look. But then again, sales of GM hybrids aren't exactly showing them flying through the roof, so maybe the tactic doesn't work too well. but I can tell that even the sales people are ignorant of the difference.

I believe GM didn't think hybrids would be successful in the market place so they didn't bother to develop anything. Once they saw how well they were selling for Toyota they decided they needed something on showroom floors soon, but didn't have the time or desire to design real hybrids. So instead, they through together this mild hybrid balogne and slapped the name hybrid on the back and sent them out to showrooms (although actually finding one of these in a showroom is pretty tough!)

They are intentionally making very few of them so that it appears they must be selling well since nobody can ever find one at a dealership. But, like somebody else said, if they can get the customer into the dealership, then maybe they can sell them something else instead.

And, as somebody else already mentioned, they purposefully wanted customers to look at the 2 mpg difference and say "who needs a hybrid anyway?"

Now, as for their hybrid system, I wouldn't say it is a bad design. In fact, quite the contrary, I think every gasoline car in production today should be made in this way. But we shouldn't call them hybrids.

One of the problems is that there is no clear industry definition of what a hybrid is. In fact, some people who are big toyota fanboys don't even want to acknowledge Honda's IMA system as being a real hybrid.

I say, a hybrid means it has two propulsion systems. The GM system does not push or assist the car in any way.. or if it does it wouldn't be enough to count for anything. And that is reflected in the fuel-economy gains (or lack thereof)

[SDP40F501]

Mild hybrid is such a misnomer. I prefer to think of cars like the Malibu as a "Mild Gasser", as in it uses slightly less fuel than a "Full Gasser."

A local charity is raffling off a Malibu. They had it on display in front of the local grocery store, and I considered buying a ticket until I went home and checked the MPG numbers.

Best to give money directly to charity than to throw it away on this turkey!

Jim

[cwerdna]

FWIW, Toyota also has shipped mild hybrids, like the JDM Crown but none of these were ever sold in the US. See http://www.google.com/search?q=site%...jp+mild+hybrid for more info.