Tutorial: Rear tire alignment

[wolverine]

Originally Posted by ksstathead

Every tire pressure thread I've seen for the Prius say 2 psi more in front than rear due to weight up front. Did you reverse your pressures in the post before last?

Sorry; you're right. I'm old! (that's my excuse du jour) I forgot!

[galaxee]

Originally Posted by wolverine

Why try to persuade Toyota to issue a formal kit and fix instructions? It's called a WARRANTY. If you have a shim put in, and if something goes wrong, and if Toyota can prove that it caused, or helped to cause, the problem, then you have no recourse.

sorry, but a/m shims are a fact of life. there are no such things as oem shims. to argue that, you'd have to argue that every a/m shim out there is somehow insufficient and every car out there that has one, is at risk of a voided warranty. there are a lot of cars, especially cars that have been on the road for a while, that have rear shim kits installed.

Apparently, you have no experience with these legal-type things, so leave it to the ones that can handle it.

i never claimed to be a lawyer, did it? i just rolled my eyes at the crying "class action lawsuit" that i see FAR too often around here.

Why is it important, beyond the risk that people with misaligned back-ends are at? Because it's the right thing for Toyota to do. Perhaps you're not a believer in corporate responsibility, but I am. And next time, before you think you might belittle someone, you might size them up a bit better and not bite off more than you can chew.

what risk are you at if your rear toe is .002 out of spec? seriously?

i believe in corporate responsibility. i also believe that there's an aftermarket way to fix the issue given that yours is taken care of. i believe if that's the case, then this is a non-issue that should not be pursued as a class action lawsuit recall.

i had no intention of belittling you, i try not to go there. i was simply being very blunt. there is a difference. i fail to see where i've bitten off more than i can chew in this discussion.

[bwilson4web]

I am not one to 'curse the darkness' and prefer not to be dependent upon the good will or actions of others. Some problems, like rear wheel alignment, are easily enough fixed. So my thinking is just do it and move on and find another interesting problem to puzzle over. Bob Wilson

[nyprius]

Originally Posted by bwilson4web

I am not one to 'curse the darkness' and prefer not to be dependent upon the good will or actions of others. Some problems, like rear wheel alignment, are easily enough fixed. So my thinking is just do it and move on and find another interesting problem to puzzle over. Bob Wilson

Bob, Thanks for your excellent post. This is by far the best information I've seen on rear wheel alignment. My rear wheel alignment has been out of spec for more than two years. My car pulls to the left a little, even though the front specs are center of range.

I agree with you that it's inappropriate that Toyota does not resolve this problem. Allowing thousands, possibly hundreds of thousands of cars to remain out of alignment is not right. We shouldn't have to seek non-dealer fixes.

I also agree that a class action suit is not the best way to go. But sadly, if that's the only thing that gets Toyota to fix the problem, then it's a far better option than leaving the situation as is.

I strongly disagree with the characterization of your post as "crying". That's a condescending, overly emotional characterization that reflects poorly on the person using it. They sound like a parent speaking to a wayward child. It's inappropriate language for this forum, especially when referring to a post such as yours that provides excellent, detailed content.

I don't want to deal with shim kits and trying to find a repair place that will do what Toyota won't. I'd much rather have the dealer solve the problem. Hopefully this issue will be resolved without a class action lawsuit. But if that's what it takes, I'm clearly in the class.

[galaxee]

Originally Posted by nyprius

I strongly disagree with the characterization of your post as "crying". That's a condescending, overly emotional characterization that reflects poorly on the person using it. They sound like a parent speaking to a wayward child. It's inappropriate language for this forum, especially when referring to a post such as yours that provides excellent, detailed content.

i have zero criticism and only respect for Bob Wilson. i also would like to apologize to him for dragging his excellent thread off topic.

however, wolverine's reaction is what prompted my responses. and by "crying" i did not mean as in a sniveling child; i meant "crying class action lawsuit" in parallel to "crying wolf".

or, in essence, yelling/threatening. not emotional at all.

I don't want to deal with shim kits and trying to find a repair place that will do what Toyota won't. I'd much rather have the dealer solve the problem. Hopefully this issue will be resolved without a class action lawsuit. But if that's what it takes, I'm clearly in the class.

you will never, ever find an oem solution to a rear beam axle alignment issue. and that's what i'm getting at. toyota dealers will be happy to fix your problem once a known a/m shim kit is available. that's how every solid beam rear axle car's rear alignment is adjusted and is an extremely common thing.

prius is only special in this regard because there is no well known, widely available commercial all-in-one kit. yet. if you really want change, pressure hunter to make prius sized shims. then the prius will not be a special case anymore.

[nyprius]

Originally Posted by galaxee

prius is only special in this regard because there is no well known, widely available commercial all-in-one kit. yet. if you really want change, pressure hunter to make prius sized shims. then the prius will not be a special case anymore.

Thanks for the clarification and good advice Galaxee!

[bwilson4web]

Thank you everyone for your kind words but I have a question:

Originally Posted by galaxee

. . . if you really want change, pressure hunter to make prius sized shims. then the prius will not be a special case anymore.

This is "Hunter" that makes a wheel alignment system? I wandered through their web site but didn't seen anything about shim kits from them. Did I miss something?

One thing I don't like about the 'generic' shim kits is the small gap between the axle and wheel plates because we're using individual shims per bolt. In a perfect world, I would want a solid, wedge shim system that would seal the gap as well as handle the alignment. I can think of several approaches including a plastic wedge with a cut-out for metal shim plates on one side. This would seal as well as ensure pairs of bolts are always engaged.

Have you run into any company that makes vehicle specific shim kits? Perhaps we can find out if they have any interest in this market.

Thanks,
Bob Wilson

[galaxee]

hunter shims are the easiest to use and are DH's preferred brand. yes, this is the same company that makes the only alignment equipment that's worth it's salt in the industry.

if he can't get his hands on a hunter, he'll wait till he can... if that tells you anything.

these are not the types of shims you're referring to, or the ones that we have made in the past. it's a ring that's formed into a wedge with an alignment notch. the alignment machines can calculate everything so all the tech needs to know is where to line up the notch in the right place on the template and cut out the holes for the bolts to go through.

that is the industry standard rear alignment procedure.

[Simtronic]

Thank you Bob and Galaxee, very informative post

[DaveLadely]

Originally Posted by galaxee

dear god man. first of all, wake up. a class action lawsuit over a little alignment issue?

second, toyota does not make shim kits. shim kits are made by aftermarket manufacturers for various types of cars. apparently bob has found an aftermarket kit that fits the classis (and 2g?) prius. but afaik there are no all-in-one kits that specify they work on a prius. at least none that we could find at the time. that has nothing to do with toyota, that is the aftermarket business missing an opportunity, for which we just sit and wait.

for a while, we learned handmade shims were being approved on a case by case basis under the alignment warranty period after DH spent a lot of time on the phone with tech over how to set ours straight. since, apparently that has ceased or dealers are not willing to do it. we personally have gotten burned very badly by someone coming to us from this very site asking for a handmade rear shim job.

if i were in your shoes, i'd find an aftermarket shim that works and have the alignment shop install it. and then calm down and let the issue go. prius is not the only car with a rear beam axle, so you're going to have a hard time finding any sympathy.

Eibach, the company that supplied the progressive springs for the Prius that won its class at Bonneville salt flats, has made both the springs and also front and rear alignment kits for the Prius, for reasonable prices!!