Dealers only taking '05 orders

[bigbaldcuban]

Most of the DFW dealers I've emailed (about 5 or 6) say they're only taking orders/deposits for 05's and quoting 7-10 month wait times. None of them expect to be able to clear out their 04 lists with the '04 model. They're not even quoting a price on the 05's because they don't know what Toyota MSRP will be.

WILL THE MADNESS EVER END!?!?! :wtf:

[Dianne]

I am doing the same. We have no idea what the MSRPs are for a car that's still 5 months away. And, we all know that with the lists we have for delivery and the average cars we get monthly, it's best to take names and numbers and just call when the name comes close to the top.

If I were most of you getting all pissed off with Toyota and their allocation of this car, I'd buy something else if you were in need of a car right away. Corolla, Camry, whatever. On a personal level, they have handled this poorly. Prius is the bane of my entire existence. Toyota's been begged, asked, advised and should be embarrassed to NOT have made the customer database more consumer-oriented with the color and package folks want so that they KNOW what YOU as the buyer wants, not just your damn name and phone # and email addresses. Right now, they should open that database to us for all of the important specs -- what YOU as a consumer, wants. Color, option package, and date of order at the ONE dealership you want to go get your car from. And, start building the cars in order of their ORDER.

They allocate units based on average sales. However, this is a car with a different sort of demand. And, it's highly impossible to earn a lot of them without a 2 year head start! Toyota -- why will you not respond to this demand? WHY are you continuing to stick your heads in the sand on this one issue? The consumers -- the BUYERS and the customers come first -- NOT your allocation system.

I will probably get in trouble for this post, but I am so tired of keeping silent and watching this cross-country frustration. :?

Dianne

[bigbaldcuban]

I'm not at all ticked. I imagine that it's just as bad a headache (or worse) for dealers as it is for people waiting. I guess it was more of a thinking out loud sort of thing. I wouldn't blame any dealer who would flat out refuse to take orders for cars that won't be coming for months or that they have a wait list of 50 (or in Dianne's case hundreds). I'm just wondering when the crest is going to be. It happened with the H2, the PT Cruiser, the Miata, and I'm sure it will happend with the Highlander (probably is already). Any dealer that so much as emails me I thank for taking time out of their day to even acknowledge me when doing a Prius search.

[boa8]

Originally posted by Dianne
Toyota -- why will you not respond to this demand? WHY are you continuing to stick your heads in the sand on this one issue? The consumers -- the BUYERS and the customers come first -- NOT your allocation system.

I will probably get in trouble for this post, but I am so tired of keeping silent and watching this cross-country frustration.  :?  

Dianne

Thanks, Dianne, for your valuable feedback from the dealers' side.

I'm glad you mentioned that Prius is not a normal car.

I think that you're absolutely right and Prius is quite special case.

My takeaway is:

(1) A lot of ubnormalities with Prius could be explained by the fact that Toyota is losing money on every Prius they sell. Not just 1 or 2 thousand USD, but, probably, We are not there yet, isn\'t it clear?


Toyota bet is BIG, so the prize - de-facto standard (and royalties) for next-generation cars.

Silver lining for Prius buyers: it seems we have a good deal...

[bookrats]

Originally posted by boa8
(1) A lot of ubnormalities with Prius could be explained by the fact that Toyota is losing money on every Prius they sell.

Just to clarify, I've read here and in articles that this was true only of the Prius Classic. Toyota is making money off of the '04 Prius -- though they may still be subsidizing it to some degree (i.e., not passing all the cost onto the customer.)

[boa8]

Toyota play the game which NOBODY else can afford/risk or copy. Why? Because they have patience and financial muscle to do that. Because they know that Prius will pull sales of profitable Lexus lineup and (eventually) will allow them to reach critical mass of sales and breakeven point.

We are not there yet, isn\'t it clear?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you MAKE money, if you found a golden mine, it's pretty straitforward - to increase capex, ramp up production. Battery shortage or not...
That the stuff people get promotions and bonuses for.

On the other hand to APPROVE and REAPPROVE balooning LOSS budget, manage PROPERLY balance between losses and marketing plan points is completely different ballgame. Not a lot of people will risk their jobs eight time higher sales (and losses) or not...

[boa8]

Originally posted by bookrats+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bookrats)</div>

Just to clarify, I've read here and in articles that this was true only of the Prius Classic. Toyota is making money off of the '04 Prius -- though they may still be subsidizing it to some degree (i.e., not passing all the cost onto the customer.)[/b]

I don't buy it, it seems to me that they are losing a lot of money on new Prius too (you can call it a *subsidy*, financially it's the same).

Do not forget, Toyota is one of the best-managed companies in the world.
I think it'll be unwise to assume that they can not handle high growth in a relatively small (Prius represents less than 2% of Toyota global sales) segment of their production.

[daniel]

My 2 cents worth: I don't believe Toyota is losing money on the Prius. They'd be in deep doo-doo with GATT if they were "dumping" cars on the U.S. However, based on my subjective evaluation of cost vs value of this car, I do think they have cut their profit margin down to the bone, in order to penetrate the market faster.

So why the backlog? Two points: 1. Clearly, they didn't realize what a winner they had on their hands. They based production on sales of the Classic, but we, the public, decided the '04 has crossed over from not-quite-there-yet to exactly-what-we-want. 2. Toyota puts quality first, and ramping up production too fast might compromise quality. A drop in quality now could scuttle the entire program.

As for the poor way they are handling the shortage / allocation, perhaps they don't understand how impatient we westerners are. Toyota knows how to make cars, and takes a long-term view of business matters, but does not fully understand the western culture.

In 1988 I went shopping for a new car. I made a list of what features I wanted. The Toyota dealer told me, "That's not how you buy a Toyota. We sell every Toyota we can get before it even reaches the lot. If you want a Toyota, you give us a deposit, and when your name gets to the top of the list, the next one is yours. We'll make an effort to get you what you want, but no promises!" In contrast, the Honda dealer went looking, found me exactly the car I wanted, and had it brought here. At one point I said I'd take a different color, because it was available, and he refused to sell it to me. He said he knew I would not be happy with a different color, and I had to wait 2 days for mine to come. And he was right.

As a result of this experience I was reluctant to switch from Honda to Toyota, but I just had to have this car.

Toyota builds great cars, but could learn a lot from Honda about distribution and customer relations.

[Dianne]

Good post.
And, that said, OooOO wait till we all see how much the Highlander Hybrid will cost. I think they will be waaaay higher than expected because of the situation with Prius. My gut tells me.

My 2 cents worth: I don't believe Toyota is losing money on the Prius. They'd be in deep doo-doo with GATT if they were "dumping" cars on the U.S. However, based on my subjective evaluation of cost vs value of this car, I do think they have cut their profit margin down to the bone, in order to penetrate the market faster.

So why the backlog? Two points: 1. Clearly, they didn't realize what a winner they had on their hands. They based production on sales of the Classic, but we, the public, decided the '04 has crossed over from not-quite-there-yet to exactly-what-we-want. 2. Toyota puts quality first, and ramping up production too fast might compromise quality. A drop in quality now could scuttle the entire program.

As for the poor way they are handling the shortage / allocation, perhaps they don't understand how impatient we westerners are. Toyota knows how to make cars, and takes a long-term view of business matters, but does not fully understand the western culture.

In 1988 I went shopping for a new car. I made a list of what features I wanted. The Toyota dealer told me, "That's not how you buy a Toyota. We sell every Toyota we can get before it even reaches the lot. If you want a Toyota, you give us a deposit, and when your name gets to the top of the list, the next one is yours. We'll make an effort to get you what you want, but no promises!" In contrast, the Honda dealer went looking, found me exactly the car I wanted, and had it brought here. At one point I said I'd take a different color, because it was available, and he refused to sell it to me. He said he knew I would not be happy with a different color, and I had to wait 2 days for mine to come. And he was right.

As a result of this experience I was reluctant to switch from Honda to Toyota, but I just had to have this car.

Toyota builds great cars, but could learn a lot from Honda about distribution and customer relations.

[aarons12]

Good post.
And, that said, OooOO wait till we all see how much the Highlander Hybrid will cost. I think they will be waaaay higher than expected because of the situation with Prius. My gut tells me.

dianne- i tend to agree with you, though i would not guess as to the exact reasoning. i have a feeling that a loaded highlander will approach the upper 30's. i thought of getting on the list for that but it's just more than i want to spend.

on the other hand, i did get to drive a prius today at a dealer who has a demo (it had regular plates on it so i suspect it belongs to one of the salespeople or something) and at least i know i am waiting for a terrific car! what a kick to drive.