Saturn Vue hybrid

[Jonnycat26]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(john1701a @ Apr 23 2006, 02:28 PM) [snapback]243993[/snapback]</div>

Highlander-Hybrid was not configured for optimum MPG. That was a rather blatant attempt to mislead. Of course, we already know how much you like to defend the "assist" hybrid design.
[/b]

Well, HiHy should have be configured for optimum MPG out of the gate. It seems like the market has agreed with me on that.

And I don't prefer any hybrid system. Like any good engineer, I prefer whatever gets the job done most efficiently. And right now, putting aside the fact that I own a Prius, I see very little difference in the the efficiency either IMA or HSD achieve.

[john1701a]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Apr 23 2006, 02:02 PM) [snapback]244002[/snapback]</div>

It seems like the market has agreed with me on that.
[/b]

Seems, perhaps. But not really.

Remember before then?

There was a massive amount of hybrid power disbelief, so much so that it was impairing the market. The number of people were under the misconception that the technology could never be fast or used for large vehicles was undeniably the majority. And of course, the anti-hybrid took heavy advantage of that.

So both Toyota & Honda set out to prove them wrong.

Now that they have, those doing after-the-fact analysis have a very hard time trying to figure out why they would ever do such a thing. In other words, that effort was so incredibly successful that some just cannot accept the fact that the proof was ever needed... which is an absolutely fantastic endorsement. That's the best kind. If looking back requires some to ask why there was any resistance, you clearly did a a very good job of implementing change.

[Tideland Prius]

yeah.. you gotta remember that before the HiHy, everyone was saying hybrids were slow. That's the point of the HiHy/RX400h. Now you see no one's mentioning slow hybrids any more. The job of the HiHy is done.

Also, I don't think it's 80-90% of a hybrid system for 10-20% of the cost. more like 10-20% for 10-20% of the cost.

Whatever happened to having the VUE as GM's answer to HSD?

CVT.. not worth the cost? Why is Carlos Ghosn putting CVTs in all his new Nissans? Versa, Altima, Murano

[Godiva]

They ought to call it the SILVER(ado) line. That way people know it's NOT a TRUE hybrid.

I think Toyota's marketing is spot on. Sell the HSD.

[Cosmo]

News flash,

YOU ARE ALL WRONG!!!!

First of all please enter the real world. Normal average everyday consumers really don't give a rats ass about hybrids, they really don't - and quite frankly, the average American can't run out and drop $25-$35K on a brand new hybrid like the Prius of Ford Escape, let alone the Lexus. Most people I work with know next to nothing about hybrids, and are not inclined to buy them. Most people I know, absolutely MOST are not interested in small efficient vehicles. They like 6 cylinder mid size cars. What, you think telling people that you will get 50 mpg will make them willing to buy a car with 110 HP, come on; get of your high falutin' arrogant hybrid happy high horses. If GM can put a car out with a $1000 premium that gets an extra 10-20% MPG so that the consumer may actually save money over the life of the car, that's great, and it will move us a little bit closer to energy independence. By the way, at best it is marginal as to whether or not the Prius will save you any money over the long haul. I did the calculations versus the Matrix, and I would only break even after about 7-8 years.

If GM were to put a very mild hybrid system across there entire fleet, basically just create an idle stop system that shuts down cylinders of their 6 and 8 cylinder models, they could probably increase their entire fleet efficiency by 15% with MINIMAL increase to the cost of the vehicle. Besides the proper application of hybrid technology is in more fuel thirsty vehicles. See the attached spreadsheet for an example. Put mild hybrids in SUV's and get an efficiency gain of 15% and you will save more gas per year then the Prius does.

Personally, I think people who answered this particular forum just don't get it. You drive the Pius and suffer from too much smug. You used this forum as nothing other then an outlet to bash GM (though most of the time they do deserve it). Get in touch with people in the real world who aren’t enamored by all the uber-tech.

And yes, I do own a Prius, I just don’t think it’s the solution to all the worlds problems. Oh one more thing. If someone buys a GM vehicle and uses E85, they will be using less oil then the vaulted Prius.

Get over yourselves.

[Jonnycat26]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tideland Prius @ Apr 23 2006, 06:50 PM) [snapback]244052[/snapback]</div>

Also, I don't think it's 80-90% of a hybrid system for 10-20% of the cost. more like 10-20% for 10-20% of the cost.
[/b]

2007 Camry Hybrid mileage: 40/38
2007 Camry 4Cyl mileage: 24/33
Improvement: 29%

All info taken from Toyota's information.

2007 Saturn Vue 4Cyl mileage: 22/27
(Estimated) Green Line Vue mileage: 27/32
Improvement: 19%

So it's about 2/3 the improvement for 1/5 the cost.

And trust me, the figures look worse if I substitute the HiHy for the Camry!

[Maytrix]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cosmo @ Apr 25 2006, 04:23 PM) [snapback]245026[/snapback]</div>

What, you think telling people that you will get 50 mpg will make them willing to buy a car with 110 HP, come on; get of your high falutin' arrogant hybrid happy high horses. If GM can put a car out with a $1000 premium that gets an extra 10-20% MPG so that the consumer may actually save money over the life of the car, that's great, and it will move us a little bit closer to energy independence. [/b]

The way fuel prices have risen over the years, 10-20% will just keep them in pace with fuel prices.

And I disagree with the first part of the above statement. People will start making changes. I drove a Jeep Grand Cherokee (16mpg) for that past 10 years (2 different ones in that time). Last fall, I started looking at alternatives and what my NEEDS were. I decided a sedan or similiar smaller vehicle would be fine. Biggest issue was really cargo space, so when I found the Prius, I was sold. I think you often need to compare a hybrid vehicle to your current vehicle, not just the gas counterpart (when applicable).

So, I think yes, people will give up their 200+HP vehicles for vehicles in the 110HP range as gas prices continue to rise. All it takes is a little knowledge and willingness to change a little. It doesn't hurt to look at the environment and also realize you are doing something to help it. And to quantify that statement, I am far from an environmentalist. I love snowmobiling, jetskiing and many other motortized sports. But that said, If a Hybrid snowmobile was released tomorrow, I'd be the first in line.

I think really the best thing for the environment and our future will be the continuing rise of gas prices. Too many people drive huge vehicles that are unnecessary, simple because they like a big vehicle and they can afford it. As prices rise, people will start to think differently.

I know that I personally will be much more inclined to buy a hybrid when it's time to replace my wifes subaru, assuming there is something that meets our needs. If I can change, so can many others. It's just going to take more time for some than others.

Final comment - In regards to the HiHy - It does get better fuel efficiency and does meet a significant need. If it wasn't for a $40k+ price tag for the model I would have wanted, I seriously would have considered it thought since I do prefer 4WD and do have an occasional need to tow. So it fills this need perfectly.

[tripp]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Maytrix @ Apr 25 2006, 03:03 PM) [snapback]245070[/snapback]</div>

And I disagree with the first part of the above statement. People will start making changes. I drove a Jeep Grand Cherokee (16mpg) for that past 10 years (2 different ones in that time). Last fall, I started looking at alternatives and what my NEEDS were. I decided a sedan or similiar smaller vehicle would be fine. Biggest issue was really cargo space, so when I found the Prius, I was sold. I think you often need to compare a hybrid vehicle to your current vehicle, not just the gas counterpart (when applicable).

...

I know that I personally will be much more inclined to buy a hybrid when it's time to replace my wifes subaru, assuming there is something that meets our needs. If I can change, so can many others. It's just going to take more time for some than others.
[/b]

There are polls that suggest that FE is making serious inroads into the psyche of the American car buyer. It only makes sence because we're seeing sustained high prices that are the result of basic economics, not geopolitics/catastrophe, though those things will exascerbate the situation from time to time.

E85 on a large scale is a joke. If you can find it, great. Of course, you'll have to burn more of it until the engines are redesigned to fully take advantage of the high compression properties of the fuel.

[kingofgix]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cosmo @ Apr 25 2006, 04:23 PM) [snapback]245026[/snapback]</div>

YOU ARE ALL WRONG!!!!
[/b]

Speak for yourself....

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cosmo @ Apr 25 2006, 04:23 PM) [snapback]245026[/snapback]</div>

See the attached spreadsheet for an example. Put mild hybrids in SUV's and get an efficiency gain of 15% and you will save more gas per year then the Prius does.
[/b]

Not according to your spreadsheet. The Prius saves more according to your numbers. And you used $3.50/gallon for the SUV and $2.50/galllon for the Proius to get the cost savings to match.

[john1701a]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cosmo @ Apr 25 2006, 03:23 PM) [snapback]245026[/snapback]</div>

...the average American can't run out and drop $25-$35K on a brand new hybrid...
[/b]

Since the average cost of a new vehicle is $20,000 anyway and the cost of gas is close to $3.00 per gallon, the price of the base Prius (which is nicely loaded) is right on target.

In other words, your claim about new purchases is both incorrect and misleading. You clearly ignored the bigger picture too. A goal to "increase their entire fleet efficiency by 15%" is setting the bar way too low and clearly only a short-term solution, since all that would do is keep the demand problem from getting worse.

As for your MPG number crunching, why are you totally ignoring everything else? What about the lower smog-related emissions?