Saturn Vue hybrid

[JackDodge]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/AUTOS/04/17/saturn...line/index.html

Is the concept of a truly fuel-efficient vehicle just something that GM can't comprehend? It seems as if they take the hybrid system and try as hard as they can to make it fit in with their myopic, fuel-inefficient way of building cars. No wonder they keep pushing E85; that way, they don't have to actually build cars that sip fuel:

"The Vue Green Line uses a system that relies on lower voltage than other hybrids. That means, for one thing, that the Vue Green Line doesn't need nearly as large of a battery pack. Batteries cost money and add weight. It also made the Vue's hybrid system easier to integrate into a normal automotive electrical system which, again, means lower cost.

"But the Vue Green Line's electric motor can't actually drive the vehicle on its own even at low speeds, the way, for example, a Ford Escape Hybrid's can. In all hybrid vehicles, the gasoline engine automatically shuts off as soon as the vehicle stops moving even at stop signs and red lights. That saves all the gas wasted in pointless idling.

"But, once the vehicle gets going again, the Ford Escape Hybrid can crawl through city traffic without starting its gasoline engine at all, at least until the battery needs recharging. In the Vue Green Line, however, the gasoline engine starts running the moment the driver's foot lifts off the brake pedal. The electric motor in the Vue assists the gasoline engine in propelling the vehicle but it is too weak to do much on its own.

"Instead of having a high-efficiency continuously variable transmission, as other hybrid vehicles do, the Vue Greenline has the same four-speed transmission as the regular Vue. Again, the slight gain in efficiency that would have come from a CVT wasn't worth the added cost."

[Ed Vatza]

I have to agree. These other manufacturers need to recognize the hybrid as a "new product" and not as a "line extension" of an existing product. That's what the Prius is - a new product. And that is why I question how successful the Camry Hybrid will be. If I was marketing this product (Camry Hybrid), I'd be promoting the Camry Hybrid as a line extension from the Prius and not as a Camry line extension. Actually, I think that is how many of us Prius owners or with aspirations to be a Prius owner view the Camry Hybrid. But will John Q. Public?

As I said elsewhere, I think the mindset is that the hybrid version may help sell a few more Saturn Vues rather than thinking in terms of building a hybrid market.

[hycamguy07]

Ok are you sitting down? youll need to sit down for this one...

Green Line Hybrids to be Value Oriented

Saturns restructuring has been in the news over the past month or two. New vehicles, such as the SKY roadster and RELAY minivan have taken GMs customer-friendly brand into uncharted territories, while staples such as the VUE compact SUV and ION compact sedan and coupe have kept the brand in business. With plenty of other cars just around the corner, such as the European-themed AURA midsize sedan and a larger crossover SUV dubbed Outlook, Saturn officials have just announced a new plan which will help raise the profile of this satellite brand.

Saturns general manager Jill Lajdziak announced in the annual Management Briefing Seminar that the brand would be launching a lineup of hybrid vehicles starting mid-2006. To be called "Green Line", the name is a clever spin on the "Red Line" nameplate used for sporty versions of Saturns VUE and ION. No doubt, the square chromed badge used for Red Line cars will be identical, except for a green stripe replacing the red stripe.

The first vehicle to wear the "Green Line" badge will be the VUE, slated to arrive during model-year 2007.

According to GMs Executive Director of Hybrid Powertrains, Larry Nitz, the Green Line system for the VUE will be a "mild hybrid" system. The system has been described as, "a very high value hybrid, as close as a hybrid to be to a bolt on system," which will help keep prices reasonable. On top of the standard gasoline-powered motor, the "mild hybrid" system will use a high-power 42-volt all-in-one starter-alternator-motor for electrical assist.
It is the heart of the system, and could also be used to restart the motor, should Saturn decide to give it an auto-stop feature. In total, the VUE Green Line is expected to deliver a fuel savings of around 10 percent, when compared to four-cylinder FWD equipped models. While theres no word on which gasoline powertrains will be used, it is expected that the electrical components will be mated to the 143-hp 2.2-liter Ecotec inline-four with the choice of a five-speed manual or four-speed automatic. The now-defunct CVT gearbox will stay out of the picture.

Though a 10 percent decrease in fuel consumption does not appear to be that great an improvement, it fulfills the objectives of the "mild hybrid" claim. GMs system is said to deliver 80 to 90 percent of the hybrid benefit at 10 to 20 percent of the cost. As it stands, the 2006 Saturn VUE is one of the most affordable compact SUVs on the marketplace with a starting price of $17,390; the addition of a hybrid system with an estimated cost of $1,500 to $2,000 would still undercut its main rival, the Ford Escape Hybrid by some $4,000 or so. Thats a price gap large enough to strike fear in the eyes of Ford execs and salespeople, plus potentially put a hefty dent in the sales of the Escape and Mercury Mariner hybrids.

And if you havent already heard, Saturn is giving the VUE a facelift for 2006. Aside from sticking the new corporate grille between its headlamps and tidying up the tail, it offers more standard equipment, optional hi-fi stereo, On-Star onboard telematics and dual stage front airbags, which helped it earn a five-star NHTSA crash-test rating (see new vehicle reviews section in this website: 2006 Saturn VUE PreVUE).

LOL Bolt on System......

Ok thats it you can stand up now

[hycamguy07]

hmm it tried to dbl post on me..

[Frank Hudon]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(paflyfisher @ Apr 23 2006, 05:09 AM) [snapback]243911[/snapback]</div>

I have to agree. These other manufacturers need to recognize the hybrid as a "new product" and not as a "line extension" of an existing product. That's what the Prius is - a new product. And that is why I question how successful the Camry Hybrid will be. If I was marketing this product (Camry Hybrid), I'd be promoting the Camry Hybrid as a line extension from the Prius and not as a Camry line extension. Actually, I think that is how many of us Prius owners or with aspirations to be a Prius owner view the Camry Hybrid. But will John Q. Public?

As I said elsewhere, I think the mindset is that the hybrid version may help sell a few more Saturn Vues rather than thinking in terms of building a hybrid market.
[/b]

you will notice in the Camray Hybrid ads on TV, Toyota is using the Hybrid Synergy Drive badging and logo as the way of differentating the two lines. Just as they do with the Prius, HSD is Toyotas copywrited hybrid line of vehicles as you will see in the Hylander hybrid it's HSD and soon to be Tundra HSD etc.

[MarinJohn]

Isn't it really upsetting to see a once great manufacturer go blindly thrashing around the mill, trying real hard to not change from dinosaur days while giving lip service to an all new era? While business has an economic backbone, it sure seems like a new design from the ground up for the 21st century is what this company needs on almost all their products. They are losing money on every car they produce (if you look at their bottom line). Since that's a given, why not continue that trend a few more years while plowing resources into top-o-the-line engineers and equiping them to face a new day instead of paying dinosaur managers and CEO's a total of BILLIONS to keep things the same by protecting their existing turf. If all this is so evident to me, (and many on PC) surely they can get from A to B themselves. I see more gumption and excitement for living from the pre-schoolers on my block than I do from the 'adults' at GM. It's sad to see GM going down so spectacularily and it's so easy to see parallels to the USA in general going down with the same boat, which is no suprise since the captains of industry also run the country, just as inefficently and with such stark lack of future vision.

[eyeguy13]

I think it is really funny that GM adds "Vue Green Line" and they think that makes it environmentally friendly. Like adding the word "green" makes this car a stellar enviro friendly vehicle.

I like the idea that when the car is stopped at a red light or stop sign, the engine stops, then kicks back on when the car starts moving. That will help a wee bit.

Kind of like putting food in green packaging and calling it healthy. I laugh when I see bacon in green colored packaging and they try to pass it off as 'lean'.

[Jonnycat26]

So, a SUV rated for 28/32 which costs 22K from GM means they don't get it?

How about a SUV rated at 31/27 (or whatever the HiHy gets, I know it's less than the Vue) which costs 35K? I'd say that's evidence that Toyota doesn't get it.

[tripp]

Actually, I think this vehicle makes perfect sense from where GM stands. They havn't spent the time and money researching and developing hybrid technology. They know that they blew it by sitting on their hands so now they have to play catch-up and get their name out there. The only way that they can do that right now is with this sorta vehicle. It's not the most elegant thing in the world but it's something and I bet that it's going to be much more successful than the other hybrid SUVs on the market. This is probably one of the few good decisions that GM's made recently. Hopefully they'll do this sorta thing across the board. I'll take a 10% increase in the fleet's FE any day of the week. We desperately need to get there and anything that's a step in that direction is a good thing.

[john1701a]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Apr 23 2006, 12:05 PM) [snapback]243975[/snapback]</div>

So, a SUV rated for 28/32 which costs 22K from GM means they don't get it?

How about a SUV rated at 31/27 (or whatever the HiHy gets, I know it's less than the Vue) which costs 35K? I'd say that's evidence that Toyota doesn't get it.
[/b]

Highlander-Hybrid was not configured for optimum MPG. That was a rather blatant attempt to mislead. Of course, we already know how much you like to defend the "assist" hybrid design. If Toyota would have wanted that first model of Highlander-Hybrid to favor MPG, they would have used the 4-cylinder engine instead. In fact, they would have used the very same one that is now available in Camry-Hybrid. But they didn't. In other words, they get it much better than GM does. Rather than making SUVs most efficient first, they are instead emphasizing the technology being used in hatchbacks & sedans.

GM's problem is that they place far to much attention on short-term products. That's what they don't get. The "assist" hybrid design simply does not support augmentation well. The passive electrical system would make it entirely dependent on a plug and the inability of engine & motor to work independently would limit what could be achieved. Those shortcomings don't exist for the "full" hybrid design, which use a persistent electrical system, a second motor, and a Planetary-CVT.