Taking a Dim Vue of Saturn Hybrid

[hb06]

The Los Angeles Times offers a less than kind review of the Saturn Vue Green Line: "It would be easy - effortless, even - to accuse GM of bad faith in the Saturn Vue Green Line, a maximally minimal venture in hybrid powertrain technology that would seem less about fuel economy and more about securing coveted hybrid badges on the doors ..." ...

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/h...-news-highway_1

[Jonnycat26]

Stupid LA times... it's a hybrid system that's roughly the same as IMA. I wonder if they bash the Civic/Accord hybrids as well.

[efusco]

Great read! Packed with fun one-liners, but here's my favorite:

As much fun as playing with a calculator is, let's stow it for now and answer the question: What's the Vue GL like from behind the wheel? Well, all things considered, I think I'd rather be under the wheels.[/b]

In the end, after spending the entire article dissing the car, he does talk about the feasability of quick implementing the "Green line" system into other GM cars and how that, at least, offers some slight modicum of improved FE. Unfortunately he doesn't address the bigger issue of emmissions, and neither does the 'green line' system.

[hb06]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Oct 26 2006, 08:49 AM) [snapback]338606[/snapback]</div>

Great read! Packed with fun one-liners, but here's my favorite:
In the end, after spending the entire article dissing the car, he does talk about the feasability of quick implementing the "Green line" system into other GM cars and how that, at least, offers some slight modicum of improved FE. Unfortunately he doesn't address the bigger issue of emmissions, and neither does the 'green line' system.
[/b]

A blog from the hybridblog.org site illustrates just how deceptive the Auto Alliance is:

"Having the Auto Alliance foist hollow hybrid vehicles along side the Prius and the Escape Hybrid is yet another attempt to dilute the hybrid field. Seems like they won’t be satisfied until any car that can power a toaster is considered part of the “hybrid revolution.”

"They are again attempting to confuse the consumer by lauding marginal technology improvements in a limited number of vehicles as “hybrid”..."

http://hybridblog.typepad.com/my_web...sauto_all.html

[Jonnycat26]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Oct 26 2006, 11:49 AM) [snapback]338606[/snapback]</div>

Unfortunately he doesn't address the bigger issue of emmissions, and neither does the 'green line' system.
[/b]

Not to quibble... but I'm qubbling with you.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/hybrid_sbs_SUVs.shtml

Side by side you can see the Vue puts out the exact same amount of greenhouse gases as the HiHy/Rx400 4WD, and slightly (very slightly) more than the HiHy/RX400 2WD.

So if the Vue is bad, so are the HiHy and RX400, at least in that respect.

[jdenenberg]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Oct 26 2006, 12:02 PM) [snapback]338618[/snapback]</div>

Not to quibble... but I'm qubbling with you.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/hybrid_sbs_SUVs.shtml

Side by side you can see the Vue puts out the exact same amount of greenhouse gases as the HiHy/Rx400 4WD, and slightly (very slightly) more than the HiHy/RX400 2WD.

So if the Vue is bad, so are the HiHy and RX400, at least in that respect.
[/b]

The Performance hybrids are 'bad' as noted, but they are big, heavy and fast. There's no excuse for a small, light, low performance 'hybrid' to do as poorly as the Vue.

JeffD

[efusco]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Oct 26 2006, 11:02 AM) [snapback]338618[/snapback]</div>

Not to quibble... but I'm qubbling with you.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/hybrid_sbs_SUVs.shtml

Side by side you can see the Vue puts out the exact same amount of greenhouse gases as the HiHy/Rx400 4WD, and slightly (very slightly) more than the HiHy/RX400 2WD.

So if the Vue is bad, so are the HiHy and RX400, at least in that respect. [/b]

I'll take that quibble and raise you a ponder...
The Hihy and RX400 can tow 3500lbs., can go 0-60 in about 7 seconds and are full size 7 seat SUVs. They get roughly the same FE in a bigger, better, more powerful vehicle....abeit at a higher cost.

I would like to see more of the Prius-like emissions systems integrated into the HiHy and, unlike the Vue, the potential for that exists, there really is no way to do that without a more fully integrated hybrid system...Heck the Vue still uses an Otto cycle engine, not even an effort to switch to Atkinson cycle...of course the 10 sec. 0-60 would drop to 15 seconds if they did that since there's almost no electric boost to speak of at all.

I'm glad GM's doing something, but this is technology that's at least 10 years behind Toyota and can't take them any further without dramatic changes and improvements.

[Jonnycat26]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Oct 26 2006, 01:15 PM) [snapback]338668[/snapback]</div>

I'll take that quibble and raise you a ponder...
The Hihy and RX400 can tow 3500lbs., can go 0-60 in about 7 seconds and are full size 7 seat SUVs. They get roughly the same FE in a bigger, better, more powerful vehicle....abeit at a higher cost.
[/b]

I consider 10K to be a much, much higher cost.

I'll raise you another ponder... which is better... selling the Vue/Aura at 22K, or selling the HiHy/RX400 at 35K? Which will do more good?

[efusco]

I guess I don't understand the question....
I wouldn't consider a Vue hybrid...we want a higher end vehicle, more of a luxury car. To that end the HiHy does us much more good. If my choices were a non-hybrid Highlander or a hybrid Vue, even if the Highlander was $7k more, I'd absolutely take the Highlander.

I'm not willing to sacrifice my personal comforts/style and performance for a hybrid label. Particularly if the FE and emissions benefits are minimal. I don't feel I sacrificed anything for my Prius. I was fine with paying $41k for our HiHy 4WD Limited w/NAV. If you force me to make a choice of a small SUV I'll take the FEH over the VUE in a heart beat.

[Jonnycat26]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Oct 26 2006, 02:03 PM) [snapback]338710[/snapback]</div>

I guess I don't understand the question....
[/b]

I guess the point I was trying to make was that not everyone can afford to drop 36K on a car, hybrid or not. Which may be, in part, the reason the HiHy tanked until Toyota gave up and loaded them up with incentives.