Bob Lutz of GM claims that CAFE change could add $5K to $6K to price of new car

[cwerdna]

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic...340/1148/AUTO01

" NEW YORK -- General Motors Corp. Vice Chairman Bob Lutz said Wednesday that a Bush administration proposal to sharply increase fuel economy mandates could add between $5,000 and $6,000 to the price of a new car
...
A better way to reduce oil dependence is to dramatically boost the availability of ethanol-based fuels, like E85, Lutz said, echoing other automakers. There are about 1,100 E85 pumps out of 170,000 nationwide. Increasing ethanol production and availability also is a solution that puts more of the burden on fuel providers..."

I'm sure he's pushing E85 because that's the cheap easy way to REALLY boost their CAFE #s because of the government E85 loophole counting scam/incentive.

[Godiva]

Hmmm.

Hybrids already meet CAFE.

Even with the so-called "hybrid premium" that still puts hybrids ahead, doesn't it?

[john1701a]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Apr 5 2007, 03:24 AM) [snapback]418108[/snapback]</div>

Hmmm.

Hybrids already meet CAFE.

Even with the so-called "hybrid premium" that still puts hybrids ahead, doesn't it?
[/b]

Study their "full" hybrid design. Those clutches, something the competition doesn't offer, should be enable the system to squeeze out even greater power & efficiency. However, that benefit adds to the vehicle cost... hence the price complaint. GM's option costs more than Toyota's or Ford's.

What are they going to do? The plans have been to offer their "assist" hybrid design for cars and reserve the "full" for only the larger vehicles that could more easily justify the extra expense.

The E85 diversion won't save them from acknowledging that too much consumption of any kind is bad, whether the source is oil or renewable. The preference for cars is growing as well. There are now in a bit of a pickle.

[Tempus]

I wonder

If Detroit has made predictions every time a safety or emissions technology was mandated, what would we get if we added them up?

I bet that if we added up their predictions for the "Incremental Cost" of Seat Belts, Air Bags, 5MPH Bumpers, Catalytic Converters, etc etc then subtracted the total from the cost of a current Compact Car, that the cars would be FREE by now if it weren't for those damned regulations.

[hill]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(cwerdna @ Apr 5 2007, 04:05 AM) [snapback]418105[/snapback]</div>

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic...340/1148/AUTO01

" NEW YORK -- General Motors Corp. Vice Chairman Bob Lutz said Wednesday that a Bush administration proposal to sharply increase fuel economy mandates could add between $5,000 and $6,000 to the price of a new car
...

[/b]

Wahhh

[galaxee]

in what? parts are mass produced cheaply.

you can't tell me that they'll spend $5-6k PER CAR on R&D to come up with better FE.

[daniel]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tempus @ Apr 5 2007, 09:08 AM) [snapback]418219[/snapback]</div>

I wonder

If Detroit has made predictions every time a safety or emissions technology was mandated, what would we get if we added them up?

I bet that if we added up their predictions for the "Incremental Cost" of Seat Belts, Air Bags, 5MPH Bumpers, Catalytic Converters, etc etc then subtracted the total from the cost of a current Compact Car, that the cars would be FREE by now if it weren't for those damned regulations.
[/b]

This is spot-on!!!

Every time the automakers don't want to do something, they claim it will make cars so much more expensive.

Well, sure, if they insist on adding 100 HP to the power of an already over-powered gas guzzler, it will cost more to make it efficient as well. Here's what I wonder: How much is added to the price of an SUV by the cost of the advertising that's used to convince people that they need an over-powered 4WD gas-guzzler for grocery shopping?

[MarinJohn]

We used to HAVE CAFE standards. The automakers had them rescinded. If they can prove they credited the $5000 back to the purchasers then perhaps they can add it to the cost now. No rebate...just kept the money for the CEO? then now the CEO can reduce his package to make up for the 'extra cost'. HA! Works both ways!

[Godiva]

I say let them add $5,000 to $6,000 to the price of every car. (Justified or not.)

It will just make hybrids that much more attractive and competitive.

(And it will make people wonder why the Japanese aren't charging $5,000-$6,000 more for their regular cars but are still meeting CAFE.)

[Tideland Prius]

You know.. An Escalade cost Cdn$60k before. This brand new one is $90k. So apparently $5k is too much to increase fuel economy but a $30k price hike is oh so totally justifiable on an Escalade. I almost died when I saw the price tag. Talk about sticker shock.


Oh.. and in case you didn't notice, during the rounds of incentives and crap back in 2002, they've silently raised the price of each vehicle by roughly the same figure as the incentive which meant you were paying the same as the year before without the incentives. (I remember checking the Buicks which had a $1,000 price difference from 2001 to 2002).

What makes it even funnier is that even after they've tricked people into thinking they were getting $1,000 off (or whatever the incentive may be), GM was still losing money. LOL.