My ZENN...First Impressions

[DaveinOlyWA]

now that i have driven my Zenn just over a week. i have some data to report.

My weekly commuting Costs are approximately $1.03... i say approximately because, in the Prius using the exact same route, my commute was 13.6 miles RT. in the ZENN which only registers whole miles (a major bummer) its only registering 12 miles RT. so i am at a loss as to which figure is accurate.

having only noticed it recently, this may be the reason for my next beef.

my range despite getting the Discovery battery upgrade and been so far disappointing. granted its cold out and range is reduced only getting about 20 miles estimated range is supposed to be like 25 for break in which i am still in. they say you need to go thru 20-30 charge cycles before batteries reach full range. summer time range is supposed to be 35-40

i will say that i can drive 15 miles, recharge for only 2 hours and get another 15 miles out of it, so will be re-verifying the range since its not really making total sense to me right now.

i paid an extra $3000 to get the deluxe model 2.2 only because it was available a few weeks (could have been as much as 6 weeks) earlier. at first was questioning my decision, but with power door locks, and stereo, (i can still plug in my ipod so i am a happy camper... two speakers is a bit of a bummer, but i can cope)

as far as 2nd thoughts about spending the money... well, since getting the Zenn, in the past 10 days, gas has gone for $3.029 to 3.139 (last night, might be higher now)... and electricity is still the same @7.4 ckwh. as we all know, any hike in electricity will be known weeks in advance. as far as gas goes...i believe it will continue to go and go along way. so no, i have no 2nd thoughts. it does not fit all my needs. i would like it to have longer range, but i dont feel that i wasted my money.

more to come:

will be verifying the odometer reading with my GPS with odometer reading to determine real range. also checking to see if my "battery conditioning" is increasing the range

**edit**

just verified odometer is reading 10 % low. did two trips with distance verified by VZ Nav on my cellphone and Google maps for distance. trip was 10.6 miles. odometer read 9.5. (this was determined at end of trip by doing laps around park at my house which was measured at .65 miles)

measured range during daylight no rain, was about 20-22 miles. with inaccuracy, current range is about 25... which is what the Zenn dealer said...so i guess we will see.

[Tideland Prius]

Thanks for the update Dave! Looks like you're having fun in the ZENN.

[daniel]

While I cannot say specifically about the Zenn, in the world of EV marketing, specs are often inflated to the point of fraud. Zap claims a 25-mile range for its base model which has a real-world range of 15 to 17 miles. Ads routinely appear for EVs claiming double the range that seems credible from the batteries the vehicle has.

But the batteries you have do get better as they're broken in, and based on the mileage you squeeze out of your Prius, I expect you to get more range than most from your Zenn.

[Tideland Prius]

I wonder if the Prius battery "suffers" the same thing with the break-in.

[hyo silver]

I wonder if the location of the batteries makes a difference. With the batteries in the Prius essentially in the cabin, as far as temperature control goes, they're neither too hot or too cold. If the batteries in the Zenn and the Zap (is the Zip next?) are outside the cabin, or if the heaters aren't as effective, that may explain some of the reduced range.

I don't want to be too negative, because I think these plug-in commuters are a great idea, but a 15 mile range with a two hour recharge is slower than a bicycle. For some of us, anyway.

[usbseawolf2000]

What was your reason for getting a Zenn instead of upgrading the Prius to plug-in? How many kwh is Zenn's battery? For $10k you can get a safe 5kwh Li-ion pack for Prius that goes about 40 miles. But then you'll have only one car instead of with Zenn.

[F8L]

Hopefully the summer will see better "performance" for you. In all though 15miles is still not too bad with a 2hr recharge but 30miles would be nice for some extra "run-around" time.

[DaveinOlyWA]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(usbseawolf2000 @ Nov 17 2007, 10:48 AM) [snapback]540969[/snapback]</div>

What was your reason for getting a Zenn instead of upgrading the Prius to plug-in? How many kwh is Zenn's battery? For $10k you can get a safe 5kwh Li-ion pack for Prius that goes about 40 miles. But then you'll have only one car instead of with Zenn. [/b]

look at my sig line. The Zenn fills 75% of my driving needs. upgrading the Prius means the Corolla still gets driven. my "real world" savings are actually the diff bet my SO driving the Prius verses the Corolla. right now she is on vacation until the monday after Thanksgiving so savings will not pile up very fast. but normally she drives nearly 200 miles a week. the difference bet her 30 mpg Corolla (using highest tank over past summer. real world will be lower now that its winter) and my 55 mpg Prius is a LOT

now when the Prius is a plug in with a 20 mile range, the ZENN will be dumped because there will be a better option for me. until then, the ZENN was by far the best choice. it is considered the "luxury EV".... at least that is what is says on the bumper sticker they gave me...hehehe


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(F8L @ Nov 17 2007, 10:49 AM) [snapback]540970[/snapback]</div>

Hopefully the summer will see better "performance" for you. In all though 15miles is still not too bad with a 2hr recharge but 30miles would be nice for some extra "run-around" time. [/b]

check OP. the odometer is wrong. off by 10% so my perceived 20-22 mile range is actually about 25 miles after all. another thing to consider, i work 10 hour shifts. because of my northern latitude (off topic trivia, Olympia is the northern most state capital in contigious US) its dark on my entire commute, so headlights and defrost is on most of the time right now.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hyo silver @ Nov 17 2007, 10:08 AM) [snapback]540955[/snapback]</div>

I wonder if the location of the batteries makes a difference. With the batteries in the Prius essentially in the cabin, as far as temperature control goes, they're neither too hot or too cold. If the batteries in the Zenn and the Zap (is the Zip next?) are outside the cabin, or if the heaters aren't as effective, that may explain some of the reduced range.

I don't want to be too negative, because I think these plug-in commuters are a great idea, but a 15 mile range with a two hour recharge is slower than a bicycle. For some of us, anyway. [/b]

The Zenn has 6 batteries, two upfront with mini 12 volt accessory battery just above motor and 4 in the back similiar to Prius location.

as far as limitations, ya it is somewhat, but i tracked how i drove my Prius and it was a lot of drive, sit in parking lot all day, go home, sit in garage all night or for several hours. then toss in an average of 15 little trips a week of less than 5 miles RT and i realized i could be getting another 3-4 mpg on my Prius without these things. but with a 7 month old and lack of planning, last 2nd needs pop up. reducing the number of these trips was VERY difficult. (something not discussed was my experiment this past summer to reduce these trips by better planning. did it for two weeks, trips went up by an average of 3 a week)

[Pinto Girl]

I was backpacking near Skyline Blvd./Moody Road (in the SF Bay Area) during late Summer, and noticed a Zenn parked in the trailhead lot, next to my Prius.

I'm a bit confused; Moody Road has a speed limit which varies from 25-35mph, and is twisty, hilly and power consuming. It ascends from Silicon Valley to the top of the Coast Range.

The nearest possible plug-in opportunity MUST be at least 7-10 miles away ---minimum--- in either direction from where it was parked.

How did they make it up there and back, with that kind of range? Were they using a support vehicle or something? That's the only thing I can think of, maybe it was there for promotional purposes...?

The car doesn't have regenerative breaking, does it? (or is that the Xap I'm thinking of?)...it was curious in any case.

I'd think that, without regen, there's no way it could make it in both directions, on its own.

----------

Most of all, though, I think it's great that you've made the commitment to driving it; I admire you for your decision. It forces me to question what I really NEED from my car under most conditions.

[daniel]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tideland Prius @ Nov 17 2007, 09:37 AM) [snapback]540949[/snapback]</div>

I wonder if the Prius battery "suffers" the same thing with the break-in.
[/b]

Two entirely different battery chemistries. Lead-acid for the Zenn and the Xebra. NiMH for the Prius.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hyo silver @ Nov 17 2007, 10:08 AM) [snapback]540955[/snapback]</div>

I wonder if the location of the batteries makes a difference. With the batteries in the Prius essentially in the cabin, as far as temperature control goes, they're neither too hot or too cold. If the batteries in the Zenn and the Zap (is the Zip next?) are outside the cabin, or if the heaters aren't as effective, that may explain some of the reduced range.

I don't want to be too negative, because I think these plug-in commuters are a great idea, but a 15 mile range with a two hour recharge is slower than a bicycle. For some of us, anyway.
[/b]

Batteries in the Xebra PK are outside, under the pickup bed. Some of the batteries in the Xebra SD are partially enclosed between the front seats, and some are fully-enclosed under the back seat. My two extra batteries are fully-enclosed, as they are jury-rigged in.

A bicycle is the most efficient transportation there is. But you get wet when it rains and you fall down when there is ice on the road and you have less cargo space than a car.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(usbseawolf2000 @ Nov 17 2007, 10:48 AM) [snapback]540969[/snapback]</div>

What was your reason for getting a Zenn instead of upgrading the Prius to plug-in? How many kwh is Zenn's battery? For $10k you can get a safe 5kwh Li-ion pack for Prius that goes about 40 miles. But then you'll have only one car instead of with Zenn.
[/b]

A plug-in Prius still burns gas all the time, unless you drive slowly and accelerate slowly enough to make everyone behind you start honking. The plug-in Prius will get half its energy from grid electricity and half from gasoline during the first 60 miles of driving. This greatly improves its FE, but is no substitute for an electric car, which uses zero gas, puts out zero emissions, and never needs an oil change.