GM's Wagoner says gas taxes, $4/gallon price floor "worth considering"

[Fibb222]

Originally Posted by jayman

Why, oh WHY, won't somebody pay ME to run a company into the ground?

You don't have the evil greed gene, so you don't qualify...

[jayman]

Hmmm always a catch.

[darelldd]

Originally Posted by hill

And what will his golden parachute cost GM.

He's getting $20 million severance.
And it doesn't end there, but that's all I can type through the tears.

[Mike Dimmick]

Originally Posted by cwerdna

Our "gas guzzler tax" DOES NOT apply to ANY "light trucks" (includes SUVs, minivans, some vans, and pickups). Per the executive summary at Light-Duty Automotive Technology and Fuel Economy Trends 1975 Through 2008 | US EPA, "light truck" sales made up 48% of vehicle 2008 MY vehicle sales.

To top it off, vehicles w/GVWR of >8500 lbs. like the Hummer H2, discontinued Ford Excursion and some extended length versions of monstrosity class (curb weight >5000 lb.) SUVs are currently completely exempt from even being tested for fuel economy and counting against that manufacturer's CAFE numbers. They're not "light trucks" anymore. This is supposed to be changing, but I don't recall when it starts taking effect.

For us, cars over 2,500kg were measured to 'light commercial vehicles' limits for toxic emissions, up to and including Euro 4. The new Euro 5 regulations, which apply to new vehicles type-approved from September 2009, and to all vehicles sold from January 2011, remove this exemption.

A car is defined as Category M1, which is a subclass of category M, "motor vehicles having at least four wheels, or having three wheels when the maximum weight exceeds 1 metric ton, and used for the carriage of passengers." Category M1 is restricted to "vehicles used for the carriage of passengers and comprising no more than eight seats in addition to the driver's seat." SUVs and minivans fit well within that division. There are also categories M2 and M3 for minibuses and buses (the division between the two is at 5,000kg).

Light commercial vehicles are category N1: category N is "motor vehicles having at least four wheels, or three wheels when the maximum weight exceeds 1 metric ton, and used for the carriage of goods." N1 is vehicles less than 3,500kg. Pick-up trucks, unfortunately, count in this sector even if dual-cab.

Category N1 pollutant limits are subdivided into three classes by weight and also by fuel, diesels being permitted more NOx and petrols more CO and HC. Petrol SUVs would fall into the heaviest class III, where they were permitted 2.27g/km CO, 0.16 g/km HC and 0.11g/km NOx. The 'car' equivalents are 1.0g/km CO, 0.10g/km HC, and 0.08g/km NOx. Euro 5 reduces the NOx limit to 0.06g/km, requires non-methane HC less than 0.068g/km, and adds a particulate limit for direct-injection (e.g. VW FSI) engines.

We don't have an equivalent of CAFE. Instead there were voluntary agreements with the manufacturers to reduce CO2 emissions. The European manufacturers association, ACEA, committed to a target of 140g/km by 2008. The intermediate target of 165-170g/km by 2003 was achieved. Ford and GM are members of ACEA. JAMA, the Japanese association, and KAMA, the Koreans, have to reach 140g/km by 2009. JAMA met their interim target of 165-175g/km by 2003, KAMA missed their target (delayed by one year). Sadly, the 2008 target was missed by quite a way (ACEA managing 157g/km), and the EU have decided that legislation is necessary.

That legislation is targetting 130g/km by 2012, a 23.5% drop from the current situation. The fines seem too low, though: assuming 160g/km, no change from now, the fine would be €2,610 per vehicle. (27 x €95 + €25 + €15 + €5 - missing by 1g/km costs €5, by 2 €20, by 3 €45 and after that €95 per g/km.)

Toyota are going to have to get on and hybridise everything.

[tochatihu]

Darrell, the 20 large is just openers. Let the publisher's book deal negotiations begin!

It's a strange world we live in, to be sure.

[darelldd]

Originally Posted by tochatihu

Darrell, the 20 large is just openers. Let the publisher's book deal negotiations begin!

It's a strange world we live in, to be sure.

Man, I must be getting old. I remember when "large" wasn't as large as this! I remember when "million" was an impossibly large number. And now (well, up until last year) that just means the value of a house in CA. And now we're getting all confortable with "billion." Billion used to be reserved for talking about the number of stars out there in the universe, and now we toss hundreds of billions of dollars around as if it existed. :sigh:

[hampdenwireless]

Originally Posted by tochatihu

Darrell, the 20 large is just openers. Let the publisher's book deal negotiations begin!

It's a strange world we live in, to be sure.

When I was younger 20 large would mean 20,000.
Does it now mean 20 million?

Not that he is worth it... his retirement package should be 5x what a line worker gets in retirement and disappear if GM cannot continue to pay its promised retire benefits.

[jayman]

If I *promise* to run a large company into the ground, will somebody pay me $10 mil? Five? How about if I only f*** it up a wee bit for $487,912.83?

[daniel]

Originally Posted by hampdenwireless

... his retirement package should be 5x what a line worker gets in retirement and disappear if GM cannot continue to pay its promised retire benefits.

Hell, a line worker actually does useful, productive work. Wagoner should get 1/5 what a line worker gets, and for running the company into the ground he should have to give back all they've paid him over the years!

[zenMachine]

Originally Posted by darelldd

Man, I must be getting old. I remember when "large" wasn't as large as this! I remember when "million" was an impossibly large number. And now (well, up until last year) that just means the value of a house in CA. And now we're getting all confortable with "billion." Billion used to be reserved for talking about the number of stars out there in the universe, and now we toss hundreds of billions of dollars around as if it existed. :sigh:

A billion here, a billion there, pretty soon we'll be talking real pocket change!