Just bought a 2010 Insight, my review.

[adric22]

Okay, I'm seeing a lot of bad information on some of these forums about the Insight, so I thought I'd take a moment to clear things up. First of all, I also used to own a 2003 Prius but it was sadly lost in a traffic accident. So, I can make a good, unbiased comparison of the two cars.

First of all, I have heard some people refer to the Honda IMA system as a "mild hybrid." I cannot accept that, as there is a huge difference between the Honda IMA and some of the junk coming out of Detroit that uses the word hybrid in their advertising. Those GM and Saturn vehicles are the true "mild" hybrids because their hybrid system does very little in the way of fuel economy improvement. When Honda's fuel economy is darned near the same as the Prius, I don't know how you can refer to it is a "mild" hybrid.

Okay.. Some people also keep mentioning that the Honda cannot drive on electric power only. This is wrong. I have been driving my Insight in electric only quite a bit. Yes, the engine is still spinning, but all the valves are closed to eliminate most of the engine drag. However, I'll be the first to admit the Prius has a far more aggressive EV mode. For example, the Insight won't take off from a dead stop in EV mode. I suspect this has to do with the fact that the CVT probably has to go into neutral to spin the engine up to operating speed and they probably don't have a good way to smoothly transition between driving around at 5 mph in electric and then moving rapidly to the gas engine. But if you get going about 5 to 10 mph you can slowly let off the accelerator pedal and you will see the screen show the gas engine go into fuel-cut mode and see that only the electric motor is providing power. You can keep it that way up to about 30 mph.

But the truth of the matter is, driving in EV mode only doesn't really help the gas mileage. So other than being cool (which I will admit, it is cool) it doesn't really do that much for you in the long run. And again, the insights fuel economy competes easily with the prius.

I also happen to think the car has plenty of acceleration power. It fells just about like the Prius in that regard (somebody on here said they thought it was slow) and if you check the official 0-60 times, the two cars are very close.

I happen to like the instrumentation arrangement on the Insight much better than the Prius. I like the traditional style of instrument cluster that is directly in front, rather than in the center of the car. The LCD information screen is much smaller in the Insight than the Prius, but it presents most of the same information. there is a button on the steering wheel to scroll through various different screens of information. I actually find it easier to look at in the Honda because the information is right in front of me in the instrument cluster, rather than having to look over at the center console.

For whoever said the Insight lacks cargo space, I would say it is just about identical to the Prius.. not sure what planet they come from and what laws of physics they were using.

The brakes feel almost exactly like the Prius, in my opinion. Of course, I had a Gen 1 prius, so most of you probably have the 2004 or newer. Not sure how different they are. Besides coming to a complete stop, I'm not sure the brake shoes ever actually engage during my regular driving.

And for whoever said something about the Honda system requires the engine to always be running, and consuming fuel.. do some research on the fuel-cut system they use. The little graphical screen that shows if power is coming from gas or batteries shows the engine go into fuel-cut ALL THE TIME. Even on the highway and just about anytime that the car is on a downhill slope the engine cuts out. True, it is still spinning, but if it is consuming ZERO fuel and creating almost zero drag on the car, than I would say that scenario is just as good as the Prius.

Oh.. and one last thing.. The IMA system is better than the HSD for highway driving. And since I live in Texas and everything is wide-open spaces, that is what is important around here.

Overall, I'd say the Insight is very competitive with the prius. And whatever people say about the technological differences, when it comes to Joe Consumer out to buy a car, I think the fuel-economy rating and the price tag are about the only things that are going to matter.

[finman]

I think the EPA estimates say the Prius (2004-2010) is the better highway MPG performer than ANY current Honda IMA product. Not my opinion, just the standardized test results. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[ceric]

Reviews from various mags have put the mpg between Gen-II Prius and Insight very close to each other.
adric22, thanks for your review. If you owned a Gen-II before, your review would be even more interesting to me. Thanks, nonetheless.

[thedutchtouch]

Originally Posted by adric22

Okay, I'm seeing a lot of bad information on some of these forums about the Insight, so I thought I'd take a moment to clear things up. First of all, I also used to own a 2003 Prius but it was sadly lost in a traffic accident. So, I can make a good, unbiased comparison of the two cars.

nice! welcome, and i look forward to reading more about your car

First of all, I have heard some people refer to the Honda IMA system as a "mild hybrid." I cannot accept that, as there is a huge difference between the Honda IMA and some of the junk coming out of Detroit that uses the word hybrid in their advertising. Those GM and Saturn vehicles are the true "mild" hybrids because their hybrid system does very little in the way of fuel economy improvement. When Honda's fuel economy is darned near the same as the Prius, I don't know how you can refer to it is a "mild" hybrid.

the term mild hybrid simply comes from the way the drivetrain is designed. it's a "mild hybrid" because the ICE (internal combustion engine) never shuts off, ie the car cannot be propelled under only electric power. While the term hybrid has been somewhat stretched (ie malibu) it doesn't negate the fact that the insight is a mild hybrid. When people use the term its just describing the technology in your car, not necessarially trashing it.

Okay.. Some people also keep mentioning that the Honda cannot drive on electric power only. This is wrong. I have been driving my Insight in electric only quite a bit. Yes, the engine is still spinning, but all the valves are closed to eliminate most of the engine drag. However, I'll be the first to admit the Prius has a far more aggressive EV mode. For example, the Insight won't take off from a dead stop in EV mode. I suspect this has to do with the fact that the CVT probably has to go into neutral to spin the engine up to operating speed and they probably don't have a good way to smoothly transition between driving around at 5 mph in electric and then moving rapidly to the gas engine. But if you get going about 5 to 10 mph you can slowly let off the accelerator pedal and you will see the screen show the gas engine go into fuel-cut mode and see that only the electric motor is providing power. You can keep it that way up to about 30 mph.

its still technically a mild hybrid. a VERY well designed one however

But the truth of the matter is, driving in EV mode only doesn't really help the gas mileage. So other than being cool (which I will admit, it is cool) it doesn't really do that much for you in the long run. And again, the insights fuel economy competes easily with the prius.

true on most parts. although the prius can with the right drivers/conditions outperform an insight simply because it CAN turn the ICE off at stoplights, etc.

I also happen to think the car has plenty of acceleration power. It fells just about like the Prius in that regard (somebody on here said they thought it was slow) and if you check the official 0-60 times, the two cars are very close.

sounds good, i was surprised myself with how "peppy" the prius was, i wasn't expecting much.

I happen to like the instrumentation arrangement on the Insight much better than the Prius. I like the traditional style of instrument cluster that is directly in front, rather than in the center of the car. The LCD information screen is much smaller in the Insight than the Prius, but it presents most of the same information. there is a button on the steering wheel to scroll through various different screens of information. I actually find it easier to look at in the Honda because the information is right in front of me in the instrument cluster, rather than having to look over at the center console.

For whoever said the Insight lacks cargo space, I would say it is just about identical to the Prius.. not sure what planet they come from and what laws of physics they were using.

The brakes feel almost exactly like the Prius, in my opinion. Of course, I had a Gen 1 prius, so most of you probably have the 2004 or newer. Not sure how different they are. Besides coming to a complete stop, I'm not sure the brake shoes ever actually engage during my regular driving.

And for whoever said something about the Honda system requires the engine to always be running, and consuming fuel.. do some research on the fuel-cut system they use. The little graphical screen that shows if power is coming from gas or batteries shows the engine go into fuel-cut ALL THE TIME. Even on the highway and just about anytime that the car is on a downhill slope the engine cuts out. True, it is still spinning, but if it is consuming ZERO fuel and creating almost zero drag on the car, than I would say that scenario is just as good as the Prius.

i would say almost, but it's close, probably too close for the average driver to produce a difference

Oh.. and one last thing.. The IMA system is better than the HSD for highway driving. And since I live in Texas and everything is wide-open spaces, that is what is important around here.

ok. sounds like you made the right choice for your situation

Overall, I'd say the Insight is very competitive with the prius. And whatever people say about the technological differences, when it comes to Joe Consumer out to buy a car, I think the fuel-economy rating and the price tag are about the only things that are going to matter.

i agree on this last point. well written comparison, but i'll warn ya- you're going to run into a lot of Pro-Prius people on here (including quite a few with knowledge/experience/info to back up thier opinions)

[a priori]

If you've read any of my posts on the Insight, you'll see that I'm a big Honda fan and I hope the Insight does well. I say that just to establish I do not have a bias against either the car or the company.

I am very happy for you that you are pleased with your new Insight! It is very unfortunate you had to lose your Prius as you did, but the benefit to you is the chance for a newer car. With that said, however, I think your Insight, though new, is not the latest technology. There is no need to be on the bleeding edge, but for purposes of comparison, I think it will be difficult to compare the new Insight with the 2010 Prius.

Perhaps the new Insight compares favorably with the Gen I Prius, but the Gen II Prius was such an improvement over the original, that your comparison starts to fade a bit. The 2010 is a significant improvement over the Gen II, so I will beg to differ with some of your comparisons.

Still, I am very glad to hear of your enthusiasm for the Insight, and I am hopeful it means the car will find a solid following.

I'm certain there will be a number of posts in this thread pointing out the technical superiority of the 2010 Prius (much of it is likely to be true), so I'll try to stay away from those responses. The critical things you've pointed out have to do with the look and amenities of the Insight which differ from those offered in the Prius. These differences should provide both some healthy competition and a greater opportunity for more people to be satisfied.

I, for one, am much more interested in driving a full hybrid where I can not only drive in EV mode, but also glide without having to deal with a constantly spinning ICE. Yes, in the Prius the ICE still spins at higher speeds, but at 41 mph and lower, you really can save enormous energy by just coasting. Not only that, but every time I sit at a traffic light or a drive-through, or simply in a parking lot, I can experience a pollution-free idle!

I also like the high-tech end of things, so the Prius, in this regard, is much more attractive. I would like to have all the gadgets (if I can afford it), and I am not comparing the pared-down models of both cars. We'll have to wait and see how Toyota prices the base models, but I would guess Toyota will work hard to be not much above the Insight. In that case I think you'll find that the MUCH higher MPGs in the Prius will make the purchase price difference go away very quickly.

I've said many, many times in this forum that the best way to go about minimizing dollars spent on a car is to buy a Honda. Not a new Insight, but a used Civic. Perhaps the Insight will, eventually, fill that role, but for now a hybrid doesn't offer the best car purchase in terms of simply lowest dollars spent.

In sum: Congrats to you! Enjoy your Insight and feel good about driving a car you've chosen for its style and peculiarities. I'll do the same as I scoot around in my '07 (for now) Prius. We are both helping move forward not only the technology, but also the social acceptance of the hybrid drivetrain (drivetrains?).

[Spin359]

Originally Posted by adric22

And for whoever said something about the Honda system requires the engine to always be running, and consuming fuel.. do some research on the fuel-cut system they use. The little graphical screen that shows if power is coming from gas or batteries shows the engine go into fuel-cut ALL THE TIME. Even on the highway and just about anytime that the car is on a downhill slope the engine cuts out. True, it is still spinning, but if it is consuming ZERO fuel and creating almost zero drag on the car, than I would say that scenario is just as good as the Prius.

The Engine always has to be in motion. burning fuel or not, without the dead weight the electrics would do better. The EV mode not being as effective does make me question it. According to several reviews (consumer reports, Car and Driver, Cars.com and people here that have driven some of each) the prius is still the best hybrid out there mileage wise, the insight at 41 and the new prius (15 inch tires) at 50. I like the insights instrument cluster better but a friend of mine said that it looks like it was designed by a drunken WWII Uboat commander.

I am going to try them both out, and i loved the old Insight but i think i'm going to foolishly trade in my 07 prius for a 10. something about a perfect 10 i always liked...

[usbseawolf2000]

Hey thanks for the details of the new Insight. That's why it is better to describe IMA, ASSIST hybrid.

Some of the facts you can not get around with the IMA system in the Insight:

- The electric motor is rated at 13hp max
- The HV battery pack has 2.5x less energy than the Prius
- Very limited regen braking due to 13hp motor/generator
- I don't think it has electric A/C due to anemic battery pack
- Limited Stealth mode (EV mode requires ICE at 0 RPM) due to anemic battery pack

You could probably have gotten 09 Prius (with year end model incentives) for less than the Insight.

[qbee42]

Thanks for the review. I hope you will stay around and provide more information and answer questions.

As pointed out above, it's too bad you didn't have a Gen II Prius before, as there are major improvements with the Gen II. To be completely fair, we need the 2010 Prius to compare to your 2010 Insight.

Tom

[a priori]

Originally Posted by qbee42

Thanks for the review. I hope you will stay around and provide more information and answer questions.

I'd like to second the thanks and the request you stay around to respond to questions (not necessarily the barbs!) and offer your views of the new Insight.

To the OP:

Even if you could have gotten a 2009 Prius for about the same price, if the Insight is a car you're going to enjoy more, then more power to you! Too many of us are just wildly stuck on that perfect Prius parked out front of our homes, so please be patient with us!

I doubt you'll convince me the Insight is better than my '07 Prius, much less the 2010, but don't worry about it. Heck, don't even try -- I'm just too much of a Prius fan! But I'm really a nut about getting rid of the useless waste of the standard ICE-driven automobile, and when a great company like Honda makes such a strong commitment as its new Insight, I'll be cheering for it to become the #2 selling hybrid in the U.S.

[john1701a]

That issue with "mild" and "electric only" stems from the size of the motor itself...

10 kW = 2010 Insight
33 kW = 2003 Prius
50 kW = 2004 Prius
60 kW = 2010 Prius

...the rest comes from the ample supply of electric available from the more active hybrid system, allowing the electric A/C to take advantage.

Insight is exactly what Honda labels it as, an ASSIST hybrid. That's the "A" in IMA.
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