Diesel hybrid from GM you'll never see

Bob Allen · 03-01-2004, 04:55 PM

Hi: In the ongoing family dispute about who is driving the most advanced and cleanest car..more news.
You may remember in our last episode, Lyle the bio diesel, was slightly set back in his eco dominance of the household by the entrance of Bob's
blue Prius. The threat to Lyle's eco dominance would have existed regardless of the color of Bob's Prius.
Bob has maintained, with help from you all, that there is ample room for both technologies and probably several more new technologies to ease ourselves out of our oil gluttony.
Lyle, in his magnaminiity, sent me an website address for a fairly exotic GM hybrid that we will probably never see for what reason I don't know but could conjure up some reasons for.
http://popularmechanics.com/automotive/con...id_gets_80_mpg/

Type this little address into your Google search engine, and you'll hopefully see a car that looks like a cross between a vacuum cleaner and a Cadillac Escalade. It's a concept car, however, and GM claims they are using it as a prototype to develop the technology. I applaud them for doing this and sincerely wish (in my feeble nationalistic way) that America would use its brain power to lead the world in alternate technologies such as this. Until that time, however, I'll gladly support the Japanese and the Germans for using their brain power.
And, Lyle should be given credit here for researching " petroleum cars" for me.
Hugs,
Humu

**Danny** · 03-01-2004, 05:33 PM

Ugly.....as.....HELL!!!

:mrgreen:

xlarimer · 03-01-2004, 07:14 PM

Uhm. Yeah. Hmmm...

Yuck is about the word that fits here.

I think that good design should have something to do with if something goes to market or not.

But it isn't like GM hasn't put something out that wasn't a good design. (Models too many to mention ... the first place finisher is the Aztek though.)

DonDNH · 03-01-2004, 07:53 PM

Bet the same design team from the EV1 designed this POS.

JBCIII · 03-01-2004, 11:00 PM

This vehicle was GM's prototype created as a part of the federal government program called Partnership for a Next Generation Vehicle. This was a Clinton-era initiative. Research and Development was done at federal research labs to augment the research done at the American major car companies. Ford and DaimlerChrysler each had their own prototypes also.

They were all trying to build a family-sized vehicle that could obtain some set amount of mileage. I think that it was 80 mpg that they were shooting for. They all ended up opting to use diesels since that was the only way that they could get close to their goal.

john1701a · 03-01-2004, 11:32 PM

The PNGV program got ugly. There were fights about who should get the patent rights to the technology that got developed. But then the Bush administration pulled the plug on the program anyway. So when the federal funding disappeared, so did that prototypes... as if they never even existed.

The focus on improved efficiency was rather "interesting" too. They used every trick in the book. The body shape was extremely aerodynamic. The body frame and panels were all made of aluminum. The seats inside were nothing but light-weight webbing, like you'd find on patio furniture. The wiring was light-weight too. There were no external mirrors, using cameras & screens instead. And the exhaust system was made entirely out of titanium.

Needless to say, it was far too expensive to be realistic.

It does make you wonder why they are so far behind in hybrid technology though, knowing they were so far along back in 2000. There plans now are to deliver their first full hybrid in 2007. So what happened?

**tag** · 03-02-2004, 03:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by john1701a
It does make you wonder why they are so far behind in hybrid technology though, knowing they were so far along back in 2000. There plans now are to deliver their first full hybrid in 2007. So what happened?

My take on this matter is they decided, with some slick marketing, that my generation (boomers) would go for overpriced Cadillacs completely disregarding gas mileage and emissions. For them, it's about power and image.

terkar · 03-02-2004, 03:37 PM

I guess I am the only one who likes the GM design - Of course, I really like fender skirts Yaaah like the 49 Merc and Lincoln. Actually, i think it looks a bit like the Prius with skirts.
However, I do agree that we will never see it and if we do it will be unrecognizable. I really don't think GM or Ford is thinking economy or mpg. How about the new GTO - subject to a gas guzzler tax.

Eisenson · 03-05-2004, 08:11 AM

Turbodiesel hybrid makes perfect sense in a thermodynamic way.

The car that can extract the most from a gallon of fossil fuel must be light, aerodynamic, and the powerplant will be a ceramic/metal combination that runs at very high temperatures. Even the exhaust gases will be relatively cool because after all, any heat lost to the environment is energy 'wasted'. The 'hybrid' portion will do exactly what the Prius hybrid does - fill in the efficiency gaps to optimize the efficiency of the ICE.

However, the diesel has excellent low-end torque compared to the Atkinson-cycle engine, so the hybrid system can probably be quite a bit less massive, and the less mass the better.

We are definitely going to see more diesels in the U.S. Direct injection overcomes the objections of the past, and even without hybrid technology and exotic heat containment we will see 50mpg in 5 passenger sedans. It's happening today, in Europe.

Don't be too surprised if GM or ?? leapfrogs the Prius using something like the above. And be *very* surprised if fuel cells are at your local dealer before 2020.

03-01-2004, 04:55 PM	#1
Bob Allen Captainbaba Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 1,262 My Car: 2004 Prius Model: Package: #7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 1 Post Friends: 0	Diesel hybrid from GM you'll never see Hi: In the ongoing family dispute about who is driving the most advanced and cleanest car..more news. You may remember in our last episode, Lyle the bio diesel, was slightly set back in his eco dominance of the household by the entrance of Bob's blue Prius. The threat to Lyle's eco dominance would have existed regardless of the color of Bob's Prius. Bob has maintained, with help from you all, that there is ample room for both technologies and probably several more new technologies to ease ourselves out of our oil gluttony. Lyle, in his magnaminiity, sent me an website address for a fairly exotic GM hybrid that we will probably never see for what reason I don't know but could conjure up some reasons for. http://popularmechanics.com/automotive/con...id_gets_80_mpg/ Type this little address into your Google search engine, and you'll hopefully see a car that looks like a cross between a vacuum cleaner and a Cadillac Escalade. It's a concept car, however, and GM claims they are using it as a prototype to develop the technology. I applaud them for doing this and sincerely wish (in my feeble nationalistic way) that America would use its brain power to lead the world in alternate technologies such as this. Until that time, however, I'll gladly support the Japanese and the Germans for using their brain power. And, Lyle should be given credit here for researching " petroleum cars" for me. Hugs, Humu __________________ :P Angel Flight Pilot

03-01-2004, 05:33 PM	#2
Danny Admin/Founder Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 5,289 My Car: 2010 Prius Model: IV Package: Solar Roof Thanks: 38 Thanked 201 Times in 84 Posts Friends: 37	Ugly.....as.....HELL!!! :mrgreen: __________________ Follow PriusChat on and *Buy your discounted 2010 Prius Accessories* here and support PriusChat: PriusChat Shop PriusChat Also Offers Discounts on: Extended Warranty - $1055 : Pre-Paid Maintenance - $875**

03-01-2004, 11:00 PM	#5
JBCIII Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Cambridge, MA Posts: 11 My Car: Model: Package: Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Friends: 0	This vehicle was GM's prototype created as a part of the federal government program called Partnership for a Next Generation Vehicle. This was a Clinton-era initiative. Research and Development was done at federal research labs to augment the research done at the American major car companies. Ford and DaimlerChrysler each had their own prototypes also. They were all trying to build a family-sized vehicle that could obtain some set amount of mileage. I think that it was 80 mpg that they were shooting for. They all ended up opting to use diesels since that was the only way that they could get close to their goal. __________________ -JBCIII I really want a battery car!

03-01-2004, 11:32 PM	#6
john1701a Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,372 My Car: 2010 Prius Model: IV Package: Solar Roof Thanks: 9 Thanked 145 Times in 70 Posts Friends: 12	The PNGV program got ugly. There were fights about who should get the patent rights to the technology that got developed. But then the Bush administration pulled the plug on the program anyway. So when the federal funding disappeared, so did that prototypes... as if they never even existed. The focus on improved efficiency was rather "interesting" too. They used every trick in the book. The body shape was extremely aerodynamic. The body frame and panels were all made of aluminum. The seats inside were nothing but light-weight webbing, like you'd find on patio furniture. The wiring was light-weight too. There were no external mirrors, using cameras & screens instead. And the exhaust system was made entirely out of titanium. Needless to say, it was far too expensive to be realistic. It does make you wonder why they are so far behind in hybrid technology though, knowing they were so far along back in 2000. There plans now are to deliver their first full hybrid in 2007. So what happened? __________________ JOHN http://john1701a.com 52.5 MPG average @ 10,362 miles

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03-01-2004, 07:14 PM	#3
xlarimer Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: berkeley, california Posts: 135 My Car: Model: Package: Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Friends: 0	Uhm. Yeah. Hmmm... Yuck is about the word that fits here. I think that good design should have something to do with if something goes to market or not. But it isn't like GM hasn't put something out that wasn't a good design. (Models too many to mention ... the first place finisher is the Aztek though.)

03-01-2004, 07:53 PM	#4
DonDNH Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Nashua, NH Posts: 717 My Car: 2004 Prius Model: Package: #7 Thanks: 2 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts Friends: 0	Bet the same design team from the EV1 designed this POS.

03-02-2004, 03:37 PM	#8
terkar Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Hendersonville, NC Posts: 104 My Car: Model: Package: Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Friends: 0	I guess I am the only one who likes the GM design - Of course, I really like fender skirts Yaaah like the 49 Merc and Lincoln. Actually, i think it looks a bit like the Prius with skirts. However, I do agree that we will never see it and if we do it will be unrecognizable. I really don't think GM or Ford is thinking economy or mpg. How about the new GTO - subject to a gas guzzler tax.

03-05-2004, 08:11 AM	#9
Eisenson Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 142 My Car: 2004 Prius Model: Package: Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Friends: 0	Turbodiesel hybrid makes perfect sense in a thermodynamic way. The car that can extract the most from a gallon of fossil fuel must be light, aerodynamic, and the powerplant will be a ceramic/metal combination that runs at very high temperatures. Even the exhaust gases will be relatively cool because after all, any heat lost to the environment is energy 'wasted'. The 'hybrid' portion will do exactly what the Prius hybrid does - fill in the efficiency gaps to optimize the efficiency of the ICE. However, the diesel has excellent low-end torque compared to the Atkinson-cycle engine, so the hybrid system can probably be quite a bit less massive, and the less mass the better. We are definitely going to see more diesels in the U.S. Direct injection overcomes the objections of the past, and even without hybrid technology and exotic heat containment we will see 50mpg in 5 passenger sedans. It's happening today, in Europe. Don't be too surprised if GM or ?? leapfrogs the Prius using something like the above. And be very surprised if fuel cells are at your local dealer before 2020.