Toyota issues writ over hybrid patent

Areometer · 04-01-2006, 06:29 PM

JAPANESE motor giant Toyota has stepped up hostilities in a battle with Aim-listed Antonov over the rights to the hybrid engine technology used in its Prius and Lexus models.

Toyota has issued a writ in Japan challenging one of Antonov’s automotive transmission patents in what appears to be an attempt to drive the British company out of business.

Antonov filed an action against Toyota a year ago in Germany, where legal costs are capped, claiming that the drive- lines of the second-generation Toyota Prius and the Lexus RX400h infringe its patents.

The German case is due to be heard in August. If the judge rules in Antonov’s favour, Toyota could face a bill of £100m (E145m, $178m) or more in royalties to the automotive technology developer and Antonov could force Toyota to stop production of Prius and Lexus hybrids.

Toyota has already sold around 250,000 hybrid vehicles, and expects to sell 300,000 units in 2006, reaching more than 1m a year by 2010. The Prius costs £17,795 upwards.

“If we win both cases, in theory we could stop Toyota selling cars in Germany and roll this out to other countries where we have a patent,” said John Moore, chief executive of Antonov.

Analysts reckon it could cost Antonov up to E300,000 to progress the case through the German courts. The company will need E1m more to defend itself in the Japanese courts.

>> Original Link

**TonyPSchaefer** · 04-01-2006, 07:36 PM

Gonna be a hard-fought battle on both sides.

bgdrewsif · 04-01-2006, 07:40 PM

So... what exactly is the problem here??? Who did what??? (and is toyota going to stop making priuses???)

**TonyPSchaefer** · 04-01-2006, 07:50 PM

Quote:

So... what exactly is the problem here???[/b]

Here's some background reading. I'm not bothering to sort these chonologically.

http://www.channel4.com/4car/news/news-sto...p?news_id=14253
http://www.autoindustry.co.uk/news/23-03-06_11
http://www.paddocktalk.com/news/html/modul...ticle&sid=29464
http://www.faz.net/d/invest/meldung.aspx?i...340979&news=adh

Black2006 · 04-05-2006, 03:36 AM

Unfortunately, it looks like Toyota's engineers were under a lot of pressure to get the Prius out of the door, and in the process may have cut a few corners by pilfering a few ideas. Now they don't want to pay:-)

Red Ginger · 04-05-2006, 05:40 AM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Black2006 @ Apr 4 2006, 09:36 PM) [snapback]235168[/snapback]</div>

Quote:

Unfortunately, it looks like Toyota's engineers were under a lot of pressure to get the Prius out of the door, and in the process may have cut a few corners by pilfering a few ideas. Now they don't want to pay:-)
[/b]

So if Antonov wins this dispute, does the judge shut off all the Priuses, just like those Blackberry things?

mikepaul · 04-05-2006, 08:45 AM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Black2006 @ Apr 5 2006, 03:36 AM) [snapback]235168[/snapback]</div>

Quote:

Unfortunately, it looks like Toyota's engineers were under a lot of pressure to get the Prius out of the door, and in the process may have cut a few corners by pilfering a few ideas. Now they don't want to pay:-)
[/b]

I don't believe you have to go to the Patent Office and dig through the files for ideas to end up infringing on a patent. A good idea is a good idea, even if someone thought of it before you.

I am hoping the sailboat-aspect of the patent renders it immaterial to a car, though...

M. Oiseau · 04-05-2006, 10:37 AM

Toyota hired Finnegan, Henderson, Farabow, Garrett & Dunner in D.C. for this case. Finnegan is the 2nd largest intellectual properties law firm in the U.S. and wouldn't have taken the case if they thought they might lose.

Black2006 · 04-05-2006, 12:57 PM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(M. Oiseau @ Apr 5 2006, 07:37 AM) [snapback]235235[/snapback]</div>

Quote:

...Finnegan is the 2nd largest intellectual properties law firm in the U.S. and wouldn't have taken the case if they thought they might lose....[/b]

Huh? What do you think, this is a "slip and fall" case and they do it on contingency? It's a big case, they'll get big fees out of it and it will probably get settled at some point.

BTW, the Antonov "good idea" was fairly well know for a while (if I remember, even Car & Driver did a piece on it in the 90's,) so you didn't have to go digging through the patent office. And no, they are not going to shut down the Prius, but Toyota will probably have to pay some licensing fees.

aaronw · 04-05-2006, 04:39 PM

I don't know if their patent can be considered valid since planetary gears have been used for many years in automatic transmissions to solve a similar problem. The transmission in my 1991 Ford Probe uses a planetary gear assembly, for example.

Unfortunately, at least in the US, the patent system is totally out of control and many patents are given for obvious solutions to problems. Patents should be limited to novel or non-obvious solutions only.

-Aaron (who has a couple patents pending)

04-01-2006, 06:29 PM	#1
Areometer Silver Business Sponsor Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Tyngsboro, MA Posts: 579 My Car: 2005 Prius Model: Package: #9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts Friends: 1	JAPANESE motor giant Toyota has stepped up hostilities in a battle with Aim-listed Antonov over the rights to the hybrid engine technology used in its Prius and Lexus models. Toyota has issued a writ in Japan challenging one of Antonov’s automotive transmission patents in what appears to be an attempt to drive the British company out of business. Antonov filed an action against Toyota a year ago in Germany, where legal costs are capped, claiming that the drive- lines of the second-generation Toyota Prius and the Lexus RX400h infringe its patents. The German case is due to be heard in August. If the judge rules in Antonov’s favour, Toyota could face a bill of £100m (E145m, $178m) or more in royalties to the automotive technology developer and Antonov could force Toyota to stop production of Prius and Lexus hybrids. Toyota has already sold around 250,000 hybrid vehicles, and expects to sell 300,000 units in 2006, reaching more than 1m a year by 2010. The Prius costs £17,795 upwards. “If we win both cases, in theory we could stop Toyota selling cars in Germany and roll this out to other countries where we have a patent,” said John Moore, chief executive of Antonov. Analysts reckon it could cost Antonov up to E300,000 to progress the case through the German courts. The company will need E1m more to defend itself in the Japanese courts. >> Original Link __________________ *SigmaAuto.com - PRIUS* Accessories & JDM Components !! Earthority.com - Earth-friendly gear & Earth-conscious news

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04-01-2006, 07:36 PM	#2
TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator Join Date: May 2004 Location: Far-North Chicagoland Posts: 13,920 My Car: 2004 Prius Model: Package: #9 Thanks: 251 Thanked 1,217 Times in 625 Posts Friends: 33	Gonna be a hard-fought battle on both sides.

04-01-2006, 07:40 PM	#3
bgdrewsif Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Phoenix, Arizona (formerly Bowling Green, Ohio) Posts: 497 My Car: 2006 Prius Model: N/A Package: #4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Friends: 0	So... what exactly is the problem here??? Who did what??? (and is toyota going to stop making priuses???)

04-05-2006, 03:36 AM	#5
Black2006 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 179 My Car: Model: Package: Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post Friends: 0	Unfortunately, it looks like Toyota's engineers were under a lot of pressure to get the Prius out of the door, and in the process may have cut a few corners by pilfering a few ideas. Now they don't want to pay:-)

04-05-2006, 10:37 AM	#8
M. Oiseau 6sigma this Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 267 My Car: 2007 Prius Model: Package: #6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Friends: 1	Toyota hired Finnegan, Henderson, Farabow, Garrett & Dunner in D.C. for this case. Finnegan is the 2nd largest intellectual properties law firm in the U.S. and wouldn't have taken the case if they thought they might lose.

04-05-2006, 04:39 PM	#10
aaronw Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 39 My Car: Model: Package: Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Friends: 0	I don't know if their patent can be considered valid since planetary gears have been used for many years in automatic transmissions to solve a similar problem. The transmission in my 1991 Ford Probe uses a planetary gear assembly, for example. Unfortunately, at least in the US, the patent system is totally out of control and many patents are given for obvious solutions to problems. Patents should be limited to novel or non-obvious solutions only. -Aaron (who has a couple patents pending)