Toyota Suspends Sales of Eight Models - NOT Prius

[taggart]

Originally Posted by angeleno

My Prius exhibits the same "sticky" accelerator pedal problem that prompted the recall and sales suspension of these other models.

The accelerator pedal occasionally (twice in two years) sticks in full throttle when it is fully depressed forcefully (ie. merging on to the freeway at hard full throttle). I do not have floor mats in my car. I can replicate this condition. This has never happened to my wife - only to me. I am a more aggressive driver than she is, and it has only happened to me when I step on the accelerator very forcefully.

Prius owners, be prepared for this to happen. It may never happen to you, but given that it is a malfunction with potentially fatal consequences, you should be prepared.

Depress the brakes fully. Shift in to neutral.

If you can replicate it, you should probably show it to your dealer asap.

[DeadPhish]

Originally Posted by taggart

This was posted in Fred's House but may be more appropriate here. Sorry for duplicating it.

Not sure if anyone is interested, but..........

On Monday, January 25th, we agreed to purchase a 2010 Rav4. The Rav was still being built and was scheduled to arrive Feb 3rd or 4th. It was slated for another dealer, so my dealeer had to trade for it. On Tuesday, he called me and told me that he had completed the trade and the Rav would arrive as planned.

I think I got a decent deal. $100 over invoice, $1,000 graduation rebate (my son just graduated last May) and 0/36 financing, which will save us over $2,100 in interest. Gotta pay it off in 3 years, but it's something we can handle.

On Tuesday evening I read about the accelerator pedal issue and immediately called my salesman to find out if the car would be held up or sold to me. He said he would have to get back with me on Wednesday. The 0/36 financing option ends on Feb 5th, so I was also concerned about that.

He called me on Wednesday and said that the Rav would be sold to me, but they will fix the pedal issue before releasing it to me. This might delay the sale 2-3 days. I asked about the financing and whether or not they would still do it on this vehicle. He talked to the powers that be at Toyota and they said they will in fact honor the financing agreement.

I spoke with him yesterday and everything is still on track. I asked how they were going to fix the accelerator pedal and he said he didn't know. I'm not sure Toyota has decided on the repair procedure.

That's everything I know right now. I believe that Toyota will probably be offering some great deals in the coming months to repair their reputation. We talked about waiting for that to happen, but unfortunately we need a car now.

I'll let you know what happens if anyone is interested. We are supposed to close the deal next week.

It sounds like you got a great deal and both you and your dealer are handling this issue in both your best interests. Congrats.

[Airbalancer]

Originally Posted by cchiang33

the problem could be other than the sticky gas pedal or the floor mate. It could be in the electronic like the faulty software bug. That could be really hard to debug. As I noticed, this problem involved other models which were not in the recall. Pruis 2010 models are not in the recall but we must be very alert when driving any late model Toyota cars and to fully prepare to react when this happen to you when driving: shift to neurtal and apply brake hard to stop the car.

[hobbit]

Oh, man, what a sh*t-storm. Nice to see Malorn back in there and
swingin'; surely he raises the bar for the site's entertainment value.
.
Take a step back, folks. Think for a second.
.
There appear to be two problems that had the misfortune to pile on
top of each other at once -- floormats, and bad throttle-by-wire
pedal assemblies. The former has been flogged far beyond death;
I want to comment on the latter in a bigger-picture way.
.
It's sort of ironic. We outsource to China, and get crap. Toyota
outsources to the US with an arm in Canada, and gets crap. When
Toyota effectively keeps it in-house and uses Denso as a supplier,
everything's hunky-dory.
.
Several different companies make car parts -- notably sensors, small
assemblies, and electronics. Toyota has almost exclusively used Denso
and I think that's pretty much 100% true in the Prius -- well, except
for the Tamagawa-Seiki position resolvers in the motors, but I'm sure
they're right up the road in the next prefecture and party with the
Toyota guys regularly. US manufacturers tend to use other suppliers --
some mix of Bosch, AC/Delco, Delphi ... others? I can't google them
up at the moment but here's the point: A car's operational reliability
depends heavily on its sensors and small electronic/electromechanical
parts. Who has heard of a fuel injector going bad on a Prius? The
GM and Ford owners are replacing those all the time. How many Prius
owners have actually replaced an air/fuel sensor, and if so at how
many miles? How about crank and cam sensors, knock sensors, pressure
and airflow sensors, etc? The ones in the Prius just keep going and
going and going, leaving the US-brand owners far behind when they
turned into their nearest dealership for yet another sensor or actuator
replacement.
.
Now we're seeing the same difference in accelerator pedals, that are
supposedly exact "equivalents" -- but those subtle differences in
manufacturing quality are now biting the industry in the ass really
hard. TBW is a new technology, and maybe not everyone has their parts
designs completely finalized or has accounted for surprises later
on. Maybe CTS could or could not anticipate long-term environmental
effects on their pedals -- they'll never admit it either way and
probably not even reprimand the guy who wasn't thinking, but clearly
Denso designed theirs in a way that takes more into account. And they
seem to do that with just about everything they produce. Or consider
the amazing robustness we enjoy from Panasonic EV's NiMH modules, even
though battery chemistries are a constantly moving target. Our own
Priuses are some of the best testimony to requirements of quality
and longevity across all supply chains.
.
Now, Toyota doesn't necessarily get it right all the time -- look at
the early Prius brake-light switch issue, for example. That didn't
get nearly as much foofaraw despite the potential for contributing
to rear-enders, but Toyota stepped up and fixed it early on and saved
a lot of face in the process. Now it's time to do it again and just
looking at where the problem areas lie really puts the egg on CTS's
face rather than that of Toyota.
.
Maybe if GM started using an extensive lineup of Denso parts instead,
they'd start producing more reliable products. This is the price of
"cheap". I've got the ozone-decayed tire valve stems to prove it.
.
If people spent as much time actually figuring out what exactly went
wrong with the CTS pedals and why injector replacement is routine in
so many other kinds of cars and WHY people have to admit to each other
so often on their own car forums "yeah, that happens all the time, you
need a new one" about some problematic widget, rather than squandering
time and energy in all this useless infighting with each other, we'd
all be so much farther ahead in terms of reliable products.
.
BTW, the Neutral delay is a half-second, not two.
.
_H*

[jendbbay]

Jabber, since you seem to know something, can you help me understand, for sure, the answer to my question? I get that there is a problem with the accelerator pedal, that it is in only some of the corollas and not mine. I also get that there is possibly a problem with some floor mats, but that probably that problem isn't relevant to either my 08 Prius or my 09 Carolla. However, what I don't understand is the following:

What accounts for the runaway Prii that have been reported, given that they are not involved in the accelerator recall? Is this still another problem? If so, is there a recall on it? If not, what's the scoop? Is it the same problem that caused the runaway Lexus or whatever it was that the cop was driving, and the runaway Prius that we see sitting smashed in a river bed? Are these problems the same or different than the floor mat and the accelerator pedal?

Thanks,

I actually drive these cars and really appreciate any info you have.

[jendbbay]

Originally Posted by DeadPhish

I've done it but I didn't time it. I believe that it's about 1 sec or slightly less. Just hitting the shifter in that direction doesn't do it. You have to intentionally move it over to N as you would D or R....then it will go 'out of gear'. I remember it being something just less than a second.

Yes to power off you have to depress the POWER button for at least 3 sec.

Oh my... I thought I understood this, now I clearly don't. To get the car into neutral you can use the shifter and put it into neutral. Right or wrong? I have read above a comment that this might not work? Say what? Then, I have read that if it doesn't work, you can push on the power button and wait for 3 seconds and the car will go into neutral. Now I read that it only takes a second to go into neutral and 3 seconds to turn the car off? Say what?

Why would I want to turn the car off while in this runaway situation? Wouldn't that be the wrong thing to do? Wouldn't that risk locking up the steering wheel, making the brakes less responsive etc?

I have actually seen the video where the woman puts the car into neutral by pressing and holding the power button. Did she actually turn the car off in that video?

I just keep getting more and more confused!

[ToyotaFleetManager]

Originally Posted by jendbbay

Jabber, since you seem to know something, can you help me understand, for sure, the answer to my question? I get that there is a problem with the accelerator pedal, that it is in only some of the corollas and not mine. I also get that there is possibly a problem with some floor mats, but that probably that problem isn't relevant to either my 08 Prius or my 09 Carolla. However, what I don't understand is the following:

What accounts for the runaway Prii that have been reported, given that they are not involved in the accelerator recall? Is this still another problem? If so, is there a recall on it? If not, what's the scoop? Is it the same problem that caused the runaway Lexus or whatever it was that the cop was driving, and the runaway Prius that we see sitting smashed in a river bed? Are these problems the same or different than the floor mat and the accelerator pedal?

Thanks,

I actually drive these cars and really appreciate any info you have.

Let me try to address this.

There are actually two seperate recalls. One due to the the accelerator pedal and the other due to floor mats.

RECALL 1 dated October 2009 has to do with floormats.

RECALL 1 is due to the following issues.

1) Non specific or wrong floor mats being used

2) Not using the factory retaining hooks on the drivers side with factory floor mats

3) Stacking more than one floor mat on top of each other on the drivers side.

RECALL 1 is specific to the following models:

Toyota
2005 – 2010 Avalon
2007 – 2010 Camry
2004 – 2009 Prius
2005 – 2010 Tacoma
2007 – 2010 Tundra
Lexus
2007 – 2010 ES
2006 – 2010 IS

The floor mat issue includes the incident in California in which a dealership loaner ES350 Lexus crashed and resulted in the death of the occupants. In that incident dealership personnel installed a heavy all weather floor mat from a Lexus RX350 SUV on the Lexus ES350. The floor mat was not attached to the retaining hooks and interfered with the accelerator pedals of the ES350.

Toyota is recommending that the owners of the vehicles involved with the recall either remove the driver's side floor mat or use ONLY the FACTORY carpeted mat properly attached to the anchors on the drivers side floorboard.

Letters will be mailed out in the next few months providing owners with time to get their vehicles retrofitted and repaired.


RECALL 2 has to deal with accelerator pedals. This is due to the accelerator pedals made by CTS, a supplier, runs the possibility of being stuck or slow to return to a neutral position after the driver lifts their foot from the pedal. The situation has appeared on less than ten vehicles out of 4.5 million and only occurs when the accelerator pedal has excessive wear and subject to condensation causing it to stick. There has been no recorded accidents, injuries or death from this problem.

The recall comprises of the following vehicles:

2005-2010 Avalon
2007-2010 Camry (not all models)
2009-2010 Corolla (North American production only)
2009-2010 Matrix
2010 Highlander (not all models)
2009-2010 RAV4 (North American production only)
2008-2010 Sequoia
2007-2010 Tundra


ONLY NORTH AMERICAN production vehicles are involved. In the case of Camry the accelerator pedal needs to be inspected by the dealer to determine whether it is a recall unit or not.

No HYBRIDs are involved in the accelerator recall.

Also no Japanese production of RAV4, Corolla, Highlander, and Camry are involved.

[direstraits71]

Originally Posted by jendbbay

Wouldn't that risk locking up the steering wheel,

Gen 2 and 3 Prius don't have a steering column lock.

[qbee42]

Originally Posted by jendbbay

Oh my... I thought I understood this, now I clearly don't. To get the car into neutral you can use the shifter and put it into neutral. Right or wrong?
<snip>

Right. You can simply shift to N. Go out and try it. People should practice these things.

The confusion is that there is a 1/2 second delay in shifting to N. Push the lever over to N and hold it for 1/2 of a second or more, and the Prius shifts into N. You can also move the lever to R and the Prius will shift into N, unless you are going very, very slowly.

If the shifter doesn't work (a really, really bad day), you can press and hold the Power button for 3 seconds. Obviously, shifting to N should be your first choice.

Tom

[qbee42]

Originally Posted by jendbbay

<snip>

What accounts for the runaway Prii that have been reported, given that they are not involved in the accelerator recall? Is this still another problem? If so, is there a recall on it? If not, what's the scoop? Is it the same problem that caused the runaway Lexus or whatever it was that the cop was driving, and the runaway Prius that we see sitting smashed in a river bed? Are these problems the same or different than the floor mat and the accelerator pedal?
<snip>

What accounts for a lot of random things that happen? So far there have been no confirmed cases of runaway Prius not related to something jammed into the accelerator pedal.

Runaway cars happen for a lot of reasons. The most common cause is driver stupidity: pressing the wrong pedal, improper floor mat installation, or simple panic.

Tom