Could recent recalls be a back door covert attempt to ban all hybrids?

[Evilshin]

Recent issues with Toyotas and possibly other manufacturers in the future seem to be related to the electronic throttle system. The fact is currently most imports and many domestic vehicles use this technology. The reason: fuel efficiency. By interpreting what a driver wants, electronic throttle systems manage fuel use far more effectively than a person.

Such electronics throttle systems have been in use for over two decades, their system have have been called into question, until now.

On the other side of the equation, there is the hybrid. A menace to GM and Chrysler, since both companies have a business model where replacement parts fuel their business. Hybrids (atleast the way Toyota and Ford makes them) have the same problem that the EV1 had: few components that require replacement over time. It just does not work with GM's business model. Results: EV1 cancelled, Chevy Volt coming soon for the last 5 years, and crappy GM hybrids that are barely more fuel efficient than their non-hybrid counter parts.

Now over time, the usual tactics have not worked:
1) Spreading myths that service is uber expensive for hybrids.
2) Spreading myths about battery issues.
3) Spreading myths about performance issues.
4) Producing sub-par hybrids to compete on price.
5) Producing ads with deceptive claims in their favour.

People are buying hybrids because they same them gas. That they can't spoof. Since people have been buying hybrids, attempting to ban them now would be futile.

But what if there was a subsystem that is critical to the hybrid that they can ban? What if that subsystem can be made to appear unsafe?

Unfortunately for the hybrid, that subsystem is the electronic throttle. A hybrid can not exist without it. A ban on their use, would mean ALL current hybrids can not be sold. Also many imports would require significant modification. If current vehicles are banned too, then many cars would have to be scrapped, including ALL hybrids.

This type of ban would bankrupt Toyota and cripple Honda and sadly cripple Ford. But notice who out of the US manufacturers didn't ask for a bailout...

One can speculate as to how one would make cars go out of control in a conspiracy. There are way too many possibility to cover here. A virus can be planted in the computers of these cars to act funny and then delete itself. You can co op conspirators to make cars go out of control. You can give an unwitting driver bad advice (like shifting a car into reverse to stop it LOL). The possibilities are endless..

IF these latest recalls, the government investigation and the out of control Prius is part of a conspiracy, then it is likely a government investigation into the safety of electronic throttles will follow. It will not directly target at Toyota, instead it will look at all cars. Afterwards instead of the expected recommendation that electronic throttles be required to have over rides, they will instead recommend an all out ban on all electronic throttles. By then it will be too late and the Prius will go the way of the EV1.

I hope it doesn't happen, but I fear.

[apriusfan]

Actually, I think that Toyota wants to get out of the hybrid business. The recalls and especially the episode in San Diego where the CHP responded to a Prius experiencing sudden acceleration is setting the stage for Toyota to exit the hybrid business. Then they can focus on building cars again and let all of the other manufacturers who have jumped on the hybrid bandwagon get sucked into the cesspool of building hybrids that have all of these electronic problems. Do you know how much it costs to EMI harden a computer system?

[Evilshin]

Originally Posted by apriusfan

Actually, I think that Toyota wants to get out of the hybrid business. The recalls and especially the episode in San Diego where the CHP responded to a Prius experiencing sudden acceleration is setting the stage for Toyota to exit the hybrid business. Then they can focus on building cars again and let all of the other manufacturers who have jumped on the hybrid bandwagon get sucked into the cesspool of building hybrids that have all of these electronic problems. Do you know how much it costs to EMI harden a computer system?

Funny how the many Prii taxis in Vancouver aren't running out of control... it seems like an American problem... hmmm...

If there is an inherent problem with electronic throttles in general, we should have seen this problem in the Prius, in 2005, with 2004 models. A software bug with such specific results, also very strange.

I don't think Toyota wants to get out of making hybrids, it works for them. GM on the other hand would like us all to go back to good old auto transmission hell, where profits from replacement parts abound...

[halfmoonray]

i like how you think evilshin

[ManualOnly]

Conspiracy theories over the SUA/Toyota in the US seems to be growing day by day.

This sudden over-exposure/hype by US media seems to be turning Toyota into a victim. Based on recent Gallup survey, it may actually backfire when all these recent "accidents" gets explained away in terms of "Godly intervention" and in such close successive events.

[fuzzy1]

Originally Posted by apriusfan

Actually, I think that Toyota wants to get out of the hybrid business. The recalls and especially the episode in San Diego where the CHP responded to a Prius experiencing sudden acceleration is setting the stage for Toyota to exit the hybrid business. ...

But ... but ... but ...

Most of Toyota's current recalls and alleged problems are in NON-hybrids.

[austingreen]

Originally Posted by fuzzy1

But ... but ... but ...

Most of Toyota's current recalls and alleged problems are in NON-hybrids.

I think you responded to the sarcastic comment. But you are right on about this having nothing to do with hybrids.

[apriusfan]

Originally Posted by Evilshin

Funny how the many Prii taxis in Vancouver aren't running out of control... it seems like an American problem... hmmm...

It could be related to proximity to magnetic north. EMI is a strange beast. One minute it is there and the next it is not....

If there is an inherent problem with electronic throttles in general, we should have seen this problem in the Prius, in 2005, with 2004 models. A software bug with such specific results, also very strange.

Or, perhaps something was changed in the manufacturing process. Here is a little bit of devil's advocacy to make the point: Lets say that the ECU/Throttle Control was packaged in a metal box for the years 2004 - 2008. Then some industrious bean counter realized that the metal boxes could be substituted for plastic ones for a unit cost savings of $5. At $5 x 500,000 production units, the bean counter earned his annual bonus as well as his bosses annual bonus (maybe even his bosses bosses annual bonus). If the same ECU/Throttle Control unit is used throughout the Toyota production, then the bean counter earned the bonuses all the way up the food chain to Toyoda-san himself. Heck, the bean counter probably was flown to Toyota City for a sit down inspirational tea ceremony with Toyoda-san before being presented as the annual profit-performance champion (or whatever they call their ceremony for cutting the most costs).

I don't think Toyota wants to get out of making hybrids, it works for them. GM on the other hand would like us all to go back to good old auto transmission hell, where profits from replacement parts abound...

There is where your reasoning is potentially faulty. You don't know what Toyota has learned from 3 generations of manufacturing hybrids. They could have run into the sudden acceleration issue in the 1st generation cars, tried once to solve it in the 2nd Gen cars and tried once more to solve it in the 3rd Gen cars. Finally, after three attempts, they said screw it; we are going to suck in the rest of the idiots that think hybrids are the way to go and let them burn through the cash that they can't afford to burn through. Ultimately, they will fail, and we will have an 80% market share for our efforts.

That is definitely a long term outlook.

[qbee42]

Originally Posted by apriusfan

Actually, I think that Toyota wants to get out of the hybrid business. The recalls and especially the episode in San Diego where the CHP responded to a Prius experiencing sudden acceleration is setting the stage for Toyota to exit the hybrid business. Then they can focus on building cars again and let all of the other manufacturers who have jumped on the hybrid bandwagon get sucked into the cesspool of building hybrids that have all of these electronic problems. Do you know how much it costs to EMI harden a computer system?

I hope this post is an attempt at humor.

Tom

[The Electric Me]

Originally Posted by apriusfan

It could be related to proximity to magnetic north. EMI is a strange beast. One minute it is there and the next it is not....


Or, perhaps something was changed in the manufacturing process. Here is a little bit of devil's advocacy to make the point: Lets say that the ECU/Throttle Control was packaged in a metal box for the years 2004 - 2008. Then some industrious bean counter realized that the metal boxes could be substituted for plastic ones for a unit cost savings of $5. At $5 x 500,000 production units, the bean counter earned his annual bonus as well as his bosses annual bonus (maybe even his bosses bosses annual bonus). If the same ECU/Throttle Control unit is used throughout the Toyota production, then the bean counter earned the bonuses all the way up the food chain to Toyoda-san himself. Heck, the bean counter probably was flown to Toyota City for a sit down inspirational tea ceremony with Toyoda-san before being presented as the annual profit-performance champion (or whatever they call their ceremony for cutting the most costs).


There is where your reasoning is potentially faulty. You don't know what Toyota has learned from 3 generations of manufacturing hybrids. They could have run into the sudden acceleration issue in the 1st generation cars, tried once to solve it in the 2nd Gen cars and tried once more to solve it in the 3rd Gen cars. Finally, after three attempts, they said screw it; we are going to suck in the rest of the idiots that think hybrids are the way to go and let them burn through the cash that they can't afford to burn through. Ultimately, they will fail, and we will have an 80% market share for our efforts.

That is definitely a long term outlook.

With all this basicly unsupported speculation why don't you just cut open a chicken and read it's entrails?

Speculation is fine to a point but you've created an entire work of pure fiction. Based, in my personal opinion, on a lot of faulty assumptions.