Now it begins "Bell the Hybrid"

[bwilson4web]

NHTSA chief talks safety at SAE World Congress | detnews.com | The Detroit News

. . .
At the Society of Automotive Engineers' annual World Congress, Strickland said Thursday that data from 12 states "shows that hybrid electric vehicles do have a significantly higher incidence rate of pedestrian crashes than internal combustion engines for certain maneuvers -- like slowing or stopping, backing up, entering or leaving a parking space, and making a turn."

. . .

In fact, the NHTSA study is flawed because it did not count the number of vehicles to give a true rate per vehicle or 100 million miles. Worse, it did not include pickup trucks and SUVs that the NHTSA has already identified as having a higher rate of pedestrian accidents (Hogan and separate NHTSA 2009 report.)

Bob Wilson

[robbyr2]

Originally Posted by bwilson4web

NHTSA chief talks safety at SAE World Congress | detnews.com | The Detroit News


In fact, the NHTSA study is flawed because it did not count the number of vehicles to give a true rate per vehicle or 100 million miles. Worse, it did not include pickup trucks and SUVs that the NHTSA has already identified as having a higher rate of pedestrian accidents (Hogan and separate NHTSA 2009 report.)

Bob Wilson

I'm no engineer or statistician but is it valid to use a few dozen people who are legally blind to base regulations on? They purposely only used comparable vehicles like the Toyota Corolla Hybrid (that is in the report) vs the Toyota Corolla, and the Honda Civic vs. the HCH, and the Prius vs. the Toyota Matrix (equiv size and weight). At 20mph or higher, the ICE vehicles were as quiet or quieter than the hybrids. More often than not, it was the ICE's that the blind persons never heard coming. And the only way they could make a significant difference was when there was virtually no ambient sound. According to the report, these regulations would help the 67,000 legally blind Americans who use only the white cane to get around be safe. And it makes clear that the only reason they need to bell the hybrid is because the blind representatives refuse to use existing technology that would warn them of all approaching vehicles.

Mr. Strickland's other plan is to remove satellite navigation systems and other infotainment devices from cars because they are distracting drivers. His goal? Zero vehicle-related deaths. Whatever it takes. The only way to achieve that would be to end vehicle use. Of course, I'm not sure what to do about horses kicking people or who is going to pick up the horse manure.

[spiderman]

Well I guess we will have to notify our representatives in Congress. They seem to be very attentive to the Country's needs lately.

[mitch672]

oh sure that make total sense, have all hybrid mfrs add cost to the vehicle for the chance that one of the 67,000 blind americans lives might be saved. Make total sense, lol. I say if they require it on hybrids, of course EVs will be next, since they are totally silent, why not just require it on all cars then? That is the only fair way to do it.

[bwilson4web]

Originally Posted by spiderman

Well I guess we will have to notify our representatives in Congress. They seem to be very attentive to the Country's needs lately.

Well we're coming on Congressional elections in November and 1/3d of the Senate is up. So I'd recommend:

• Volunteer to work at their office - do phone banking or whatever it takes so folks and the candidate know your name and face.
• About 6 weeks before the election - see if the incumbent is a co-signer of HR 734 / S 841, if they are, ask if you can get a little face time and let them know you drive a hybrid. Ask them, "Is supporting you going to put a noise maker on my hybrid?"
• If they are a challenger - ask them the same question, "Would you put a noise maker on my hybrid?"
• Work another week or so - let them think about it and then decide where you need to spend your time.

I know this sounds cold but you'll also find a lot of the blind are volunteering to work phone banks. You need to be there. Keep our cars quiet but not our ballots.

Bob Wilson

[bwilson4web]

Originally Posted by mitch672

oh sure that make total sense, have all hybrid mfrs add cost to the vehicle for the chance that one of the 67,000 blind americans lives might be saved. Make total sense, lol. I say if they require it on hybrids, of course EVs will be next, since they are totally silent, why not just require it on all cars then? That is the only fair way to do it.

The real problem is making our hybrids as noisy as today's engine powered vehicles does not save a life. We lose about 4,000 pedestrians a year and not even 10/4000 ~0.25% from Prius. So what this effort does is distract NHTSA from the pile of dead bodies from SUVs, pickups and other vehicles. It is 'eyewash' so NHTSA can ignore the thousands who die every year and ~50-60,000 thousands who are injured.

Understand, if anyone can show from the accident statistics that hybrids are a real risk, I'll stand beside them. But repeating the same experiment, noisy vehicles, and expecting a different result - that is the definition of insanity.

Bob Wilson

[robbyr2]

Originally Posted by bwilson4web

The real problem is making our hybrids as noisy as today's engine powered vehicles does not save a life. We lose about 4,000 pedestrians a year and not even 10/4000 ~0.25% from Prius. So what this effort does is distract NHTSA from the pile of dead bodies from SUVs, pickups and other vehicles. It is 'eyewash' so NHTSA can ignore the thousands who die every year and ~50-60,000 thousands who are injured.

Understand, if anyone can show from the accident statistics that hybrids are a real risk, I'll stand beside them. But repeating the same experiment, noisy vehicles, and expecting a different result - that is the definition of insanity.

Bob Wilson

4,000 pedestrians is too many, no doubt. But taking questionable test results- limited subjects, using the quietest hybrids versus not particularly quiet ICE vehicles, removing all ambient sound, removing any road debris from the tires, not discussing the type of pavement etc.- to then claim its proven that we're killing blind people (Toyotas are the worst of course according to the study). Ugh!

And we're going to bell the hybrid because 67000 visually-impaired Americans want to use only their white canes. Technology exists that would allow the blind to know any vehicle is approaching but they don't want to use it. The hybrid-and EV-buying public have to make the changes. Guide dogs are already trained (about 33000 use them) so what we have is a voluntary hazard.

Seeing Congressman Towns is the sponsor didn't help make me any happier.

[hampdenwireless]

Silence is golden. With so much noise pollution isn't it nice to have something quiet? As a pedestrian I can hear a Prius moving under electric power due to the tire noise. Sometimes I even hear an 'electric' sound as well. Considering I am sighted and my hearing is not unusually good (or bad) a blind person should easily be able to hear one.

[bwilson4web]

Originally Posted by robbyr2

. . .
And we're going to bell the hybrid because 67000 visually-impaired Americans want to use only their white canes. . . .

The dog-training schools already have adopted Prius into their training and teach the dogs to work on motion (a natural for a predator species.)

Bob Wilson

[spiderman]

Perhaps we can get an electronic petition going on here?