Hybrids making EMF-sensitive people sick?

[raholco]

OK-I can somewhat understand the EMF sensitivity "to a point"-but the rest of Alanna's rant seem VERY suspect.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/27/au...les/27EMF.html

Alanna Zabel: The Hybrid Hype

[FL_Prius_Driver]

Here is the part I liked:

"I turned on the car and the EMF reader. Without driving, the car read 0.9mG. We continued to take a different kind of test drive around the block. While driving the car without the radio or air conditioning on, it read 2.8mG. When we put all the features on (navigation, air conditioning and radio), it read 4.6mG! This was the proof that I needed that it was the EMF's that were causing my headaches and reactions."

I wonder what the strength of the earth's magnetic field is?

[fuzzy1]

"... When we put all the features on (navigation, air conditioning and radio), it read 4.6mG! This was the proof that I needed that it was the EMF's that were causing my headaches and reactions."

She certainly doesn't require very much proof.

"Ironically, the more research that I did about hybrid-electric car batteries, the more I realized they were the farthest thing from green. Apparently, the nickel on the Toyota Prius battery is mined in Sudbury, Ontario, shipped to a refinery in Wales, sent to China to be made into nickel foam, then it is shipped to Japan and made into a hybrid battery, now ready for the 2010 Prius. Once the car is assembled, it is shipped to the United States. The point here is that the Toyota battery consumes a lot of fossil fuel during its development; not to mention these batteries eventually accumulating in landfills."

Sudbury? Batteries in landfills, rather than being recycled? Fossil fuel used during development? Then this gem:

"... he extended another great offer to get me into a non-hybrid Toyota Highlander ... The quality of the Highlander speaks for itself, and I was very impressed with my test drive (and the EMF reading.)"

These Highlanders have ratings of 19-22 MPG, consuming far more lifecycle fossil fuel than the Prius she was worried about. I'm sorry, but I can't give her any credibility whatsoever.

[bwilson4web]

Where have we heard this before:

Originally Posted by Zabel

. . .
Ironically, the more research that I did about hybrid-electric car batteries, the more I realized they were the farthest thing from green. Apparently, the nickel on the Toyota Prius battery is mined in Sudbury, Ontario, shipped to a refinery in Wales, sent to China to be made into nickel foam, then it is shipped to Japan and made into a hybrid battery, now ready for the 2010 Prius. Once the car is assembled, it is shipped to the United States. The point here is that the Toyota battery consumes a lot of fossil fuel during its development; not to mention these batteries eventually accumulating in landfills.
. . .

http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/news/a...a-factory.html For those interested in the original junk article.

Guess she won't be joining the Leaf waiting list. All in all, I can think no more perfect punishment than driving a full-size SUV. The punishment fits the crime and we're all happy.

Bob Wilson

[JimboPalmer]

Several comments

1) their idea of proof and mine very substantially, I would want double blind testing for correlation.

2) if the A/C and radio are producing 3.7 mG of EMF, why worry about the 0.9mG actually emitted by the Hybrid drivetrain? I would want to contrast a hybrid with a similar non hybrid, personally.

3) The earth's magnetic field varies from 300 mG to 600 mG, which either dwarfs the units they were measuring in the car, or the reporter did not know a mG from a MG. (Billion to one difference in US billions)

[FL_Prius_Driver]

I also found it funny that she started out claiming she wanted a vehicle that was Eco-friendly and ended up with one of the most Eco-unfriendly vehicles possible.

[hill]

Originally Posted by bwilson4web

Where have we heard this before:
. . . . . . . . . snip

Bob Wilson

Here's the RELAY funny thing. Ms Toyota worry wart can't stop wringing her hands about hybrid non-issues ... yet GM?

New GM Shirks Responsibility for Old Toxic Dumps and Mercury Disposal | Hybrid Cars

She won't give these REAL toxic issues a second thought.

.

[bwilson4web]

Perhaps some of us need to register and gently share the facts and data with Ms. Zabel?

I don't mind she finds the Prius not to her liking and I really don't care what excuse she uses. However, the nonsense about the traction battery needs correcting.

Bob Wilson

[RobH]

The lady's report of severe headaches whenever she drove the Prius seem legitimate. She experienced the problem, and found a solution in driving a different car.

Who are we to tell her that we don't believe her symptoms? The cause of the symptoms are certainly up for debate, but not the existence of the symptoms. I would point out that the Gen3 Prius uses a different plastic than was used before. Perhaps she is unusually sensitive to that plastic. Whatever the cause, she has a body that can tell the difference between a Prius and a Highlander.

As for EMFs causing symptoms, that is a wide open issue. Clearly the vast majority of people don't notice any effects. That doesn't disprove the possibility of a small number, maybe only this lady, have headaches triggered by the electromagnetic radiation from the Prius.

The few people who have scientifically looked into any biological effects of EMF report that EMF can create voltages of the same magnitude as occur in human neurological activity. I would be very cautious about identifying EMF as a single phenomenon that has only a strength dimension. It's really a combination of many different frequency signals at different strengths. It may well be that only a very specific subset of the EMF has any importance with regard to this lady's symptoms. So the number on the EMF meter is a piece of data, but hardly an exhaustive characterization of the phenomenon.

Her comments about Sudbury are quite brief, and easy to turn up if you want to go looking for that sort of thing. I don't think Sudbury has anything to do with her experience, only some other negative data that she turned up.

So I'm sorry that she had such a bad experience with my favorite car. But I'll accept her report as real. And any additional reports are worth collecting and at least filing away for future reference.

As for my personal experience, I think the shape of the driver's seat has much more impact on me than anything emanating from the electronics.

[HolyPotato]

Note that the Times article is from 2008, and (I hope) is not one of the better examples of the Times' reporting.

Here's my post on the issue from '08.

Her article is no better. She clearly doesn't know what she's measuring, it's just numbers to her. She may as well try to measure the field with a ouija board, since she might have at least had some training in how to read that as a teen. Even using her completely unstated methods, she didn't report the reading on the Highlander to compare.

To be fair to her, as RobH says, she had a problem, and tried fix it. On a personal level, that's fine, but it's not fair to then say that it was due to some aspect of her new car that she doesn't understand, and that she had "proof".

But she goes further yet, speculating on the "inflammatory issue[s]" of her clients. Her byline says she's a "yoga and health expert", so how many of her clients that don't drive hybrids also have inflammatory issues? Nearly all of them?