Saturn readying Vue as a simpler hybrid

Kiloran · 01-23-2006, 09:58 AM

Saturn readying Vue as a simpler hybrid
Has regenerative braking. Electric used during acceleration only.

LaughingMan · 01-23-2006, 10:41 AM

It would seem like this saturn is nothing more than the 1st generation hybrid technology from Honda that were used in the pre 2006 Civic and the Accord.

How's the emissions, I wonder? From my understanding, the "assist" type doesn't really do anything to address emissions unlike full hybrids.

Catskillguy · 01-23-2006, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by LaughingMan@Jan 23 2006, 11:41 AM
It would seem like this saturn is nothing more than the 1st generation hybrid technology from Honda that were used in the pre 2006 Civic and the Accord.

How's the emissions, I wonder? From my understanding, the "assist" type doesn't really do anything to address emissions unlike full hybrids.

[snapback]195923[/snapback]

Probably just the marginal help like with the original HCH. I know that one didn't meet New york Environmental standards to get the alternative fuels/hybrid tax credit. From what I recall, it was only the Honda Insight & the Prius among mainstream cars (LNG, pure electric not withstanding)

This year's HCH would qualify.

Potential Buyer · 01-24-2006, 01:27 PM

The 2006 HCH is also an assist hybrid; it uses IMA (Integrated Motor Assist) just like the original. It is just barely capable of running the electric motors at 25% power while coasting with the ICE off, but it can't actually drive using just the motors and it can't recharge the battery directly from the engine. The Insight is also an assist hybrid.

Pollution has nothing to do with the hybrid drive as the electric motors do not create nor reduce pollution. The engine simply needs to combust the gas in certain conditions, which means regulating the pressure, temperature, oxygen composition, etc., of the burn, and effectively filtering the pollutants that are created anyway. Also simply being fuel-efficient automatically reduces pollution since you burn less gas to begin with. And evaporative emissions (from the fuel tank, not the engine) need to be controlled to score a PZEV rating.

Remember that even the HCH-I was a PZEV in CARB states, since a slightly different one, without lean-burn, was built to meet that requirement.

john1701a · 01-24-2006, 01:52 PM

The Honda's electrical system is passive, as opposed to the persistent system in Prius. There's just one small electric motor, so electricity is always supplied by the battery-pack and does not continuously recharge like "full" hybrids do. There is a forced-charge mode available, but the MPG penalty makes relying mostly on regenerative braking for electricity a better (though limited) choice.

Put in simple terms, it has much less electricity available in comparison to a "full" hybrid. So even if it could stop engine motion and drive exclusively with the motor, the distance would be very short.

But it doesn't. In fact, it couldn't even it had a battery-pack replenished by a plug. There isn't liquid cooling for the motor in that design (hence part of the lower cost). That means an attempt to drive in true stealth could result in an overheated system... not a risk worth taking.

In other words, you get what you pay for.

HokieHybrid · 01-24-2006, 08:41 PM

They have the concept Hybrid Vue at the Washigton Auto Show, including one that is chopped up as a cross section, with cheesy lights all over it. I would have pictures but my digital camera is on its way back from warranty service.

Hybrids have a good presence at the Auto Show...but I was disappointed that no one was around the Prius or the HCH for me to stump. I wanted to ask them questions that they could not answer. I might go back this weekend and see if there are more salespeople. (I went with someone who was a sports car freak, and now I'll take my dad and my redneck friend so I'll see some trucks). I'm sure I will be hearing "it's awesome that you know stuff about cars" at work for at least a week.

Random things I noted:
- The Ford Escape Hybrid has a regular power plug in it...no need for a car adapter...nice plus.
- I've heard that the HCH has a port for a memory stick of some sort....couldn't find it, but I did find the aux port which is the same as the prius, only in the stereo instead of the mid console.
- HCH has a bigger trunk than I expected
- They are giving away a Silverado Hybrid

and for Malorn's benefit....I will say I was impressed with several of GM's new offerings. The HHR stuck out, but there were a few I liked. And the colors offered in things other than the Prius were definitely better. But I'm still getting my Prius...but I'm going to talk to my dealer and see what he knows about the production delays, and the gray that's coming out in May. I just want to make sure I have it by June 30.....gray or black.

Sorry for the tangent.

**Tideland Prius** · 01-25-2006, 02:21 AM

PC Card Reader is what you're looking for on the HCH.

01-24-2006, 01:52 PM	#5
john1701a Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,381 My Car: 2010 Prius Model: IV Package: Solar Roof Thanks: 9 Thanked 145 Times in 70 Posts Friends: 12	The Honda's electrical system is passive, as opposed to the persistent system in Prius. There's just one small electric motor, so electricity is always supplied by the battery-pack and does not continuously recharge like "full" hybrids do. There is a forced-charge mode available, but the MPG penalty makes relying mostly on regenerative braking for electricity a better (though limited) choice. Put in simple terms, it has much less electricity available in comparison to a "full" hybrid. So even if it could stop engine motion and drive exclusively with the motor, the distance would be very short. But it doesn't. In fact, it couldn't even it had a battery-pack replenished by a plug. There isn't liquid cooling for the motor in that design (hence part of the lower cost). That means an attempt to drive in true stealth could result in an overheated system... not a risk worth taking. In other words, you get what you pay for. __________________ JOHN http://john1701a.com 52.5 MPG average @ 10,808 miles

01-24-2006, 08:41 PM	#6
HokieHybrid Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 197 My Car: 2006 Prius Model: Package: #6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Friends: 0	They have the concept Hybrid Vue at the Washigton Auto Show, including one that is chopped up as a cross section, with cheesy lights all over it. I would have pictures but my digital camera is on its way back from warranty service. Hybrids have a good presence at the Auto Show...but I was disappointed that no one was around the Prius or the HCH for me to stump. I wanted to ask them questions that they could not answer. I might go back this weekend and see if there are more salespeople. (I went with someone who was a sports car freak, and now I'll take my dad and my redneck friend so I'll see some trucks). I'm sure I will be hearing "it's awesome that you know stuff about cars" at work for at least a week. Random things I noted: - The Ford Escape Hybrid has a regular power plug in it...no need for a car adapter...nice plus. - I've heard that the HCH has a port for a memory stick of some sort....couldn't find it, but I did find the aux port which is the same as the prius, only in the stereo instead of the mid console. - HCH has a bigger trunk than I expected - They are giving away a Silverado Hybrid and for Malorn's benefit....I will say I was impressed with several of GM's new offerings. The HHR stuck out, but there were a few I liked. And the colors offered in things other than the Prius were definitely better. But I'm still getting my Prius...but I'm going to talk to my dealer and see what he knows about the production delays, and the gray that's coming out in May. I just want to make sure I have it by June 30.....gray or black. Sorry for the tangent. __________________ 2006 #6 Black with Silver Pinstripes!!! Yet another Cool Chick in a Black Prius!

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01-23-2006, 09:58 AM	#1
Kiloran Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 1,225 My Car: Model: Package: Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Friends: 0	Saturn readying Vue as a simpler hybrid Has regenerative braking. Electric used during acceleration only.

01-23-2006, 10:41 AM	#2
LaughingMan Senior Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Marlborough, MA Posts: 1,387 My Car: Model: Package: Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Friends: 0	It would seem like this saturn is nothing more than the 1st generation hybrid technology from Honda that were used in the pre 2006 Civic and the Accord. How's the emissions, I wonder? From my understanding, the "assist" type doesn't really do anything to address emissions unlike full hybrids.

01-24-2006, 01:27 PM	#4
Potential Buyer Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 290 My Car: Model: Package: Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Friends: 0	The 2006 HCH is also an assist hybrid; it uses IMA (Integrated Motor Assist) just like the original. It is just barely capable of running the electric motors at 25% power while coasting with the ICE off, but it can't actually drive using just the motors and it can't recharge the battery directly from the engine. The Insight is also an assist hybrid. Pollution has nothing to do with the hybrid drive as the electric motors do not create nor reduce pollution. The engine simply needs to combust the gas in certain conditions, which means regulating the pressure, temperature, oxygen composition, etc., of the burn, and effectively filtering the pollutants that are created anyway. Also simply being fuel-efficient automatically reduces pollution since you burn less gas to begin with. And evaporative emissions (from the fuel tank, not the engine) need to be controlled to score a PZEV rating. Remember that even the HCH-I was a PZEV in CARB states, since a slightly different one, without lean-burn, was built to meet that requirement.

01-25-2006, 02:21 AM	#7
Tideland Prius Moderator of the North Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 19,633 My Car: 2010 Prius Model: N/A Package: Technology Package (Canada) Thanks: 229 Thanked 346 Times in 245 Posts Friends: 23	PC Card Reader is what you're looking for on the HCH.