Honda Kills the Insight

[aaf709]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Charles Suitt @ May 18 2006, 01:22 PM) [snapback]257666[/snapback]</div>

The position seems to be that fatalities would increase with increased sales of smaller vehicles. Extrapolated, doesn't this imply that we should *ALL* be driving "Sherman Tanks?"
[/b]

On that note, Jean Shepherd once wrote an article in Mad Magazine about what he called "Creeping Meatballism." He said the perfect car for traffic would look like a dodge 'em car, with a thick rubber rim around it.

I don't like the fact the Insight is going. I may not want to buy one, but it did have a niche.

[ken1784]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ghostofjk @ May 19 2006, 06:58 AM) [snapback]257701[/snapback]</div>

Most importantly, it would be a true 4-passenger small-family/commuter car, hopefully accessible in price to the large segment of wannabe hybrid buyers who can't afford the Prius's $20K+ price tag. I've been saying for a few years now that THAT is a potential ground-breaking market niche to truly make hybrid technology accessible to "the masses".
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Please remember that Toyota is saying they are going to reduce the hybrid premium to half and it is coming in 2008 before new Honda in 2009.
My bet for the base price of next Prius is less than $20k.

Ken@Japan

[andrewgs]

I think one of the Insight's problems is that like three dealers in the US have one in stock to look at. If you can't look at the car or drive it it makes it hard to want to order one. The Prius suffers from this problem, but to a much lesser extent. At least Toyota dealers get Prius on a regular basis, none of the Honda dealers I contacted or stopped by wanted to have an Insight in their stock for anyone to even look at.

Too bad to see it go though. I rememder back in '99 or '00 going to the Honda dealer to look at them and got to drive one, it was certainly an interesting car. I always thought it looked quite a bit like the EV1.

[Wiyosaya]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(cwerdna @ May 18 2006, 03:01 AM) [snapback]257388[/snapback]</div>

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/arti...1024/LATESTNEWS

"American Honda Motor Co. Inc. plans to kill the Insight hybrid this year.

The small, two-seat Insight, introduced in the United States in 1999, sold only 320 units in the first four months of this year. That compares with sales of 30,357 for the competing Toyota Prius, a family sedan embraced by environmentalists..."
[/b]

After reading this article, it is my opinion that Honda is taking the same approach as US automakers. That is, keep giving the consumer the same crap only disguised as something new. Come on . Smaller than the current Civic? Personally, I refused to consider the current Civic because it is so small. Where is the innovation? I would like to see the prospective MPG for this car before making my decision, but my distase of Honda after driving one for the past 12 years is that they are small compared to Toyotas.

US automakers don't want to change because their production lines are tooled to make the same crap over and over again. To change costs them a lot of money. This is, or so I have heard, in contrast to an automaker like Toyota where their production lines are built to be flexible. Therefore, Toyota can afford to innovate.

With the next gen Prii rumored to be rated at 94MPG, with lithium batteries, and 240MPG a realizable goal as demonstrated by CalCars, I'd say Toyota is being innovative rather than trying to continually sell the same crap to their customers like US automakers do and now, so it seems, Honda is planning to do. Its no wonder Detroit can't make any money when they refuse to innovate and sell new, up-to-date technology. US automakers continually piss and moan about the cost of making any improvements to the technology. Toyota, on the other hand, is being as I see it, a responsible "corporate citizen" of the Earth by doing something that is good for everyone - with NO upfront complaining about the "expense."

Incidentally, my '94 Acura Integra was and still is able to run on pure alcohol with no modifications. I tried to find it back then, and I guess that I would have no more luck today trying to find it than I did then short of going to the liquor store . All this garbage Ford and other US automakers are touting about E85 is just more smokescreen crap IMHO.

If the auto industry keeps going the way it is, I have no doubts that Toyota will become the biggest automaker, unless, of course, they get a CEO that was raised and schooled in the US.

[hobbit]

Oh, the EV-1 is *much* sexier and James-Bondier than the Insight.
.
_H*

[ken1784]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wiyosaya @ May 20 2006, 01:39 AM) [snapback]258094[/snapback]</div>

Come on . Smaller than the current Civic? Personally, I refused to consider the current Civic because it is so small. Where is the innovation?[/b]

Smaller than current Civic size does not mean smaller than current Civic inside space.
Anyway, the original announcement does not states the size but price...
http://world.honda.com/news/2006/c06...YearCEOSpeech/

With the next gen Prii rumored to be rated at 94MPG, with lithium batteries,[/b]

Please note that the next Prius target is 40km/L on Japanese 10-15 mode test.
That translates to 94mpg. The current Prius is 35.5km/L, so the next one will be 13% improvement, 62mpg combined.

Incidentally, my '94 Acura Integra was and still is able to run on pure alcohol with no modifications.[/b]

Also, please note that there were a lot of fire accidents using alcohol in Japan few years ago, especially on Honda cars.
Japanese government forced to stop selling alcohol fuel since then.

Ken@Japan

[genalex]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Charles Suitt @ May 18 2006, 04:22 PM) [snapback]257666[/snapback]</div>

I believe our government far too long has bowed to auto manufacturers and oil interests rather than acting in the best interests of us all. The requirements for fuel economy should have been arbitrarily increased many years ago. These, *FIVE YEAR* plans to gain only a few MPGs aren't really an appropriate response. The technology is available and proven. So quit babying the auto manufacturers and oil interests. GET TOUGH NOW! I find 0-60 MPH in 10.6 seconds is more than adequate... and that 45-55 MPG is most welcome.
[/b]

Not to branch away from the topic, the underlying problem is the fact that American politics is based on campaign financing. Auto mfrs, oil interests or any other special interest group can buy all the influence on lawmaking they want. And the lawmakers keep fooling the US public with lip-service to campaign finance reform accompanying phony laws full of loop-holes.

Is there no incentive for competent, honest individuals to run for office other than payola, whether it's in gifts, "loans", travel perks, or job-insuring campaign contributions?

[MarinJohn]

The Insight was my first ride in a hybrid and eventually guided me to look at and purchase a Prius. Insight was too small and rough riding for my tastes and needs, but it was a leader in a new industry. My friend has been trying to buy an upgraded Insight for a while now, but dealers don't seem to have them and told him they couldn't sell them (not hard to imagine if you don't stock the thing). There are quite a few Insights left on the road here, but they are dwarfed in number next to the ever popular Prius. No matter to me which car was 'first', and in which country. Insight was but one rung on the ladder leading up and away from ICE-only and toward a new future. Those who bought them were early adoptors of a new technology and their purchases told the auto companies (well the ones with vision) that there is/was a new paradigm. Long live the Insight!

[Wiyosaya]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ken1784 @ May 19 2006, 03:14 PM) [snapback]258189[/snapback]</div>

Smaller than current Civic size does not mean smaller than current Civic inside space.
Anyway, the original announcement does not states the size but price...
http://world.honda.com/news/2006/c06...YearCEOSpeech/
[/b]

I stand corrected.

Please note that the next Prius target is 40km/L on Japanese 10-15 mode test.
That translates to 94mpg. The current Prius is 35.5km/L, so the next one will be 13% improvement, 62mpg combined.
[/b]

That is an improvement, though, and, IMHO, is a further indication that Toyota is interested in improving things rather than living in and selling the past.

Also, please note that there were a lot of fire accidents using alcohol in Japan few years ago, especially on Honda cars.
Japanese government forced to stop selling alcohol fuel since then.
[/b]

Interesting. I guess that the US govt. has not heard of this, and we, in the US, should expect E85 (85% alcohol, 15% gas) to be a "hot item" on the streets.