GM's Bob Lutz: "Not All Eggs in Hydrogen Basket"

[clett]

Could this finally be an admission that GM have realised just how thermodynamically and economically ridiculous hydrogen-fuelled vehicles are compared to PHEVs?

These words come from the top, from GM's Bob Lutz himself! Some highlights....

"....we’re not putting all of our eggs in the hydrogen basket...."

"....we have several other alternatives in the works in the meantime...."

"....we are also studying plug-in hybrids, and will have more to say about those soon...."

"....rest assured I truly believe that electric-drive vehicles have a real future in this country and around the world...." (!!!!)

"....and yes, believe it or not, this really is Bob Lutz talking!"

Maybe, just maybe, the engineers' silly pills have finally run out and somebody's got the message through to the top!

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/09/gm...ot_al.html#more

[SomervillePrius]

Wow,

that some remarkable words from GM. Maybe they can become young and hot again?

[eagle33199]

One thing that occured to me - everyone talks about hydrogen vehicles, and how they're going to be the future... ok, i can buy the idea that they solve some problems. of course, one of the big problems to this (as alluded to in that article) is the distribution infrastructure - it simply isn't there for something like this, and will probably take a while to get into place.

Why haven't i heard anyone talking about working on a hybrid hydrogren vehicle? something that has the fuel cells to drive on pure electric propulsion, but also has a gas engine? that would give the distribution network plenty of time to get into place before switching over to full hydrogen fuel cell vehicles. It seems to me that, as he hinted at, the source of the energy (batteries VS hydrogen) doesn't matter... one should be able to, in a good design, be swapped out for the other. Which just makes me wonder if we won't at some point see hydrogren conversion companies that replace the batteries with hydrogen fuel cells the same way we see the plug in conversion companies today...

[Jonnycat26]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Sep 29 2006, 02:33 PM) [snapback]325670[/snapback]</div>

One thing that occured to me - everyone talks about hydrogen vehicles, and how they're going to be the future... ok, i can buy the idea that they solve some problems. of course, one of the big problems to this (as alluded to in that article) is the distribution infrastructure - it simply isn't there for something like this, and will probably take a while to get into place.
[/b]

One thing that GM and Honda have their eyes on when they talk about Hydrogen is China...

There isn't much of a distribution infrastructure there to begin with. Won't be expensive to build up a hydrogen infrastructure as opposed to a petroleum infrastructure.

[Marlin]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(clett @ Sep 29 2006, 09:42 AM) [snapback]325534[/snapback]</div>

"....rest assured I truly believe that electric-drive vehicles have a real future in this country and around the world...." (!!!!)[/b]

Pssst... Hydrogen Fuel Cell vehicles are "electric-drive vehicles". Hence the second half of his sentence that you didn't include...

But rest assured I truly believe that electric-drive vehicles have a real future in this country and around the world; the only question is the nature of the power source or sources[/b]

When he talks about "the nature of the power source or sources", don't think Coal/Natural Gas/Nuclear; think Battery/Hydrogen Fuel Cell.

[darelldd]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Sep 29 2006, 11:33 AM) [snapback]325670[/snapback]</div>

ok, i can buy the idea that they solve some problems. [/b]

I dare you to name one. Not even the FCV proponents can figure out what problems a FCV will "solve" (at least in relation to BEVs or hybrids). Well, honestly, I can think of one... but I'm looking for an item that FCVs will solve BETTER than any other option.

I can tell you with some confidence that this very company - that literally and loudly laughed at hybrids just a few short years ago as not being "anything that American drivers would want"- is now pulling out all the stops to be the first in the game with a PHEV.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Sep 29 2006, 11:33 AM) [snapback]325670[/snapback]</div>

Why haven't i heard anyone talking about working on a hybrid hydrogren vehicle?[/b]

Ford, GM, Honda, Toyota ... all theoretically working on FCVs. GM is supposed to have 100 on the road next year.

something that has the fuel cells to drive on pure electric propulsion, but also has a gas engine? that would give the distribution network plenty of time to get into place before switching over to full hydrogen fuel cell vehicles. [/b]

I'm guessing that there won't be much of a market for a $1million slow gasoline car... if the FC stack can't even be used, and the thing is only driven on gasoline the car will be more efficient... but I'm still not sure it'll sell.

[john1701a]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Sep 29 2006, 07:50 PM) [snapback]325837[/snapback]</div>

I can tell you with some confidence that this very company - that literally and loudly laughed at hybrids just a few short years ago as not being "anything that American drivers would want"- is now pulling out all the stops to be the first in the game with a PHEV.[/b]

I saved a bunch of their "stop gap" articles, so later, I could have the last laugh.

They mocked hybrids, calling them a waste of resources. And still today they are pushing hydrogen... which has yet to reveal a benefit. Without a clear goal, their efforts are a waste. What the heck will a fuel-cell deliver that a "full" hybrid platform cannot?

[Jonnycat26]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(john1701a @ Sep 29 2006, 09:41 PM) [snapback]325867[/snapback]</div>

They mocked hybrids, calling them a waste of resources. And still today they are pushing hydrogen... which has yet to reveal a benefit. Without a clear goal, their efforts are a waste. What the heck will a fuel-cell deliver that a "full" hybrid platform cannot?
[/b]

A clean car that doesn't require any petroleum?

You knew that tho.

[john1701a]

john1701a has chosen to ignore all posts from: Jonnycat26

[Jonnycat26]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(john1701a @ Sep 29 2006, 10:01 PM) [snapback]325878[/snapback]</div>

john1701a has chosen to ignore all posts from: Jonnycat26
[/b]

Typical... it's a good point, you have no retort, so you go sulk. At least it's fairly obvious that you've got nothing to add.