GM's Bob Lutz: "Not All Eggs in Hydrogen Basket"

[hyo silver]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Sep 29 2006, 09:49 PM) [snapback]325873[/snapback]</div>

A clean car that doesn't require any petroleum?
[/b]

Maybe in Iceland. Highly unlikely anywhere else. All depends how the hydrogen is made.

[Jonnycat26]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hyo silver @ Sep 29 2006, 11:39 PM) [snapback]325910[/snapback]</div>

Maybe in Iceland. Highly unlikely anywhere else. All depends how the hydrogen is made.
[/b]

Well, it could be made by nuclear power. And let's face it, nuclear power is much cleaner than coal. If I had to guess, I'd say the future is going to be a mix of Hydrogen Electric and pure Electric Vehicles.

[sl7vk]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Sep 29 2006, 11:49 PM) [snapback]325911[/snapback]</div>

Well, it could be made by nuclear power. And let's face it, nuclear power is much cleaner than coal. If I had to guess, I'd say the future is going to be a mix of Hydrogen Electric and pure Electric Vehicles.
[/b]

Well I certainly hope they find a way to get me a "hyrdrogen" car that works when it's -10 degrees out here, and I have an 25 foot icicle hanging out of my tailpipe.....

Oh, and you'll have to remind me why Electric cars wouldn't do just what you're describing?

[hyo silver]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Sep 29 2006, 11:49 PM) [snapback]325911[/snapback]</div>

Well, it could be made by nuclear power. And let's face it, nuclear power is much cleaner than coal. If I had to guess, I'd say the future is going to be a mix of Hydrogen Electric and pure Electric Vehicles.
[/b]

Nuclear? Oh man, let's not go through that again. "Cleaner than coal" isn't saying much. We could burn leftover lead paint and it would be cleaner than coal. No matter how the electricity is generated, it's better to put it straight into batteries than to make hydrogen. To be charitable, I'll say you're half right. Skip the hydrogen part, and go with electric.

[Jonnycat26]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(sl7vk @ Sep 29 2006, 11:54 PM) [snapback]325912[/snapback]</div>

Oh, and you'll have to remind me why Electric cars wouldn't do just what you're describing?
[/b]

How quickly can I charge an electric car? Are they going to be able to make electric powered tractor trailers? Electric school busses? Why do you think Diesel is still popular... it sure isn't just because of the small number of cars that run on Diesel.

[john1701a]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Sep 29 2006, 07:50 PM) [snapback]325837[/snapback]</div>

I'm guessing that there won't be much of a market...[/b]

Not much needs to be said beyond that.

The "full" hybrid platform will continue to advance. The engine will get smaller, as well as support ethanol more. Electricity use will increase substantially. Operation will get even cleaner.

How in the world a fuel-cell vehicle will compete with that is a total mystery.

[aaf709]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Sep 29 2006, 09:47 PM) [snapback]325929[/snapback]</div>

Are they going to be able to make electric powered tractor trailers? Electric school busses? Why do you think Diesel is still popular... it sure isn't just because of the small number of cars that run on Diesel.
[/b]

ISE Corporation, where I work, has made several hybrid busses and a few tractor trailers. We've even made some military hybrids. Largely gas/electric, but also diesel/electric, HICE/electric (Hydrogen ICE) and some fuel cell busses. Depends on what the customer wants.

On our lot is a full electric truck we did for Sparkletts Water. The license plates are something Darell would like...PLUGDIN.

[sl7vk]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Sep 30 2006, 12:47 AM) [snapback]325929[/snapback]</div>

How quickly can I charge an electric car? Are they going to be able to make electric powered tractor trailers? Electric school busses? Why do you think Diesel is still popular... it sure isn't just because of the small number of cars that run on Diesel.
[/b]

I imagine that there is a lot less that stands in our way of a 5 minute charging station for an electric car then there is getting Hydrogen off the ground.

[darelldd]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(sl7vk @ Sep 30 2006, 09:07 AM) [snapback]326033[/snapback]</div>

I imagine that there is a lot less that stands in our way of a 5 minute charging station for an electric car then there is getting Hydrogen off the ground.
[/b]

Indeed. There is NOTHING in our way of a 15-minute 250-mile charge today. Nothing. The technology exists, the energy exists. The batteries exist. But it costs lots of money. Up to maybe 1/10th of what a FCV would cost - so it is WAY too much.

[darelldd]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(john1701a @ Sep 29 2006, 06:41 PM) [snapback]325867[/snapback]</div>

I saved a bunch of their "stop gap" articles, so later, I could have the last laugh.[/b]

If you have any of that electronically, I've love to see it. I know a few others who are compiling the same info. Would likely be good to share.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Sep 29 2006, 06:49 PM) [snapback]325873[/snapback]</div>

A clean car that doesn't require any petroleum?
[/b]

If this is an answer to my "dare" above, please note the caveat regarding doing anything *better* than any other transportation solution. Yes, a FCV could be drven clean with no petroleum... yet a BEV can be driven just as clean for less than 1/10th the cost of building the vehicle, and by only using 1/4 of the "clean" energy.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(sl7vk @ Sep 29 2006, 08:54 PM) [snapback]325912[/snapback]</div>

Well I certainly hope they find a way to get me a "hyrdrogen" car that works when it's -10 degrees out here, and I have an 25 foot icicle hanging out of my tailpipe.....[/b]

Quite possible today... you'll just have to use quite a bit more energy just to keep the exhaust warm.

Oh, and you'll have to remind me why Electric cars wouldn't do just what you're describing?
[/b]

They would... except with better performance, lower build cost, significantly better efficiency, lower fuel cost and ease of refueling. Other than that, they're like... identical!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Sep 29 2006, 09:47 PM) [snapback]325929[/snapback]</div>

How quickly can I charge an electric car?[/b]

Does this include finding an outlet vs. finding a Hydrogen station? With 300-mile range BEVs, the times when speed of charging is an issue are few and far between. And even so, quick recharge time is not something that still needs to be invented. An infrastructure for fast BEV chargers would cost hundreds of millions of dollars. Infrastructure for H2 filling stations would cost trillions.

Are they going to be able to make electric powered tractor trailers? Electric school busses? Why do you think Diesel is still popular... it sure isn't just because of the small number of cars that run on Diesel.
[/b]

Easier than making them hydrogen powered, yes... though lets not forget that hydrogen vehicles ARE electric vehicles... and are electrically powered. Just with a few more lossy steps inbetween. In the short term the best way to power large vehicles (trucks, planes, etc) is with hybrid propulsion. We still have a need for liquid fuel. Doesn't mean we should be using it for the applications that do NOT require it.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(john1701a @ Sep 30 2006, 07:29 AM) [snapback]326002[/snapback]</div>

How in the world a fuel-cell vehicle will compete with that is a total mystery.
[/b]

It simply can't. It can't compete on price, availability, current technology, range, cleanliness, efficiency.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aaf709 @ Sep 30 2006, 07:41 AM) [snapback]326005[/snapback]</div>

On our lot is a full electric truck we did for Sparkletts Water. The license plates are something Darell would like...PLUGDIN.
[/b]

Cool.