GM's Bob Lutz: "Not All Eggs in Hydrogen Basket"

[john1701a]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Sep 30 2006, 12:29 PM) [snapback]326065[/snapback]</div>

If this is an answer to my "dare" above, please note the caveat regarding doing anything *better* than any other transportation solution.[/b]

(It was bait for me. But I didn't bite.)
.

Emphasizing *better* is the key. Since a fuel-cell vehicle is an electric-hybrid, replacing the engine with a stack simply doesn't make any sense.

A future generation Prius with just a tiny 0.8 liter engine and a beefy battery-pack would be a much better choice. That would take no infrastructure change to implement. It's just a reconfiguration of the Prius we already drive. Why would anyone choose to purchase an entirely new technology instead, when it doesn't even offer anything better... and cost more... and reliability is uncertain... and refueling locations are few ...and driving range is shorter ...and the price of hydrogen is a complete mystery.

[darelldd]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(john1701a @ Sep 30 2006, 11:42 AM) [snapback]326104[/snapback]</div>

(It was bait for me. But I didn't bite.)
Well done. I don't have the self control.

A future generation Prius with just a tiny 0.8 liter engine and a beefy battery-pack[/b]

... and a plug!

If the liquid fuel portion of the hybrid were flexible-fuel, we'd even be in better shape. Personally, I'd like a plug-in hybrid that would burn biodiesel as the liquid part. I'd put fuel in two or three times a year for the long trips, and just leave it dry the rest of the time.

[dipper]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(john1701a @ Sep 30 2006, 11:42 AM) [snapback]326104[/snapback]</div>

(It was bait for me. But I didn't bite.)
.

Emphasizing *better* is the key. Since a fuel-cell vehicle is an electric-hybrid, replacing the engine with a stack simply doesn't make any sense.

A future generation Prius with just a tiny 0.8 liter engine and a beefy battery-pack would be a much better choice. That would take no infrastructure change to implement. It's just a reconfiguration of the Prius we already drive. Why would anyone choose to purchase an entirely new technology instead, when it doesn't even offer anything better... and cost more... and reliability is uncertain... and refueling locations are few ...and driving range is shorter ...and the price of hydrogen is a complete mystery.
[/b]

Your suggestion is still only the "better" than today's offerings. At the end, we still have to buy fuel from nutjobs like Chavez.

If that 0.8L engine is 100% biofuel, then that will be another story.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Sep 30 2006, 12:56 PM) [snapback]326142[/snapback]</div>

... and a plug!

If the liquid fuel portion of the hybrid were flexible-fuel, we'd even be in better shape. Personally, I'd like a plug-in hybrid that would burn biodiesel as the liquid part. I'd put fuel in two or three times a year for the long trips, and just leave it dry the rest of the time.
[/b]

Better programming in the hybrid system with this setup. Allowing the user to identify how to use the ICE to recharge the engine. Say. A manual mode to allow constant running of ICE to recharge when you want to travel long distance. And when the battery runs low (that 0.8L engine probably cannot recharge as fast as the EV engine's use), allow another manual mode for the ICE to recharge the battery even when you turn off the car until full. Hence continue to recharge the battery while getting food, sleep, or bathroom break.

And remove today's version of transmission (PSD or whatever from the ICE) to remove drivetrain lost and reduce weight.

I would love that. We know that is just an EV lugging around an ICE, but certainly solves the distance problem.

[clett]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Sep 29 2006, 08:50 PM) [snapback]325837[/snapback]</div>

I can tell you with some confidence that this very company - that literally and loudly laughed at hybrids is now pulling out all the stops to be the first in the game with a PHEV.
[/b]

Darell that's dynamite if true!! Pleeaase show use what you've found! Share!

In any case they've got their work cut out as here are the current PHEV runners and riders....

2008/9 - Toyota next generation Prius (stated will have LiIon and 9-mile EV range)

2009/10 - Mitsubishi with their in-wheel system, likely an evolved Colt EV

2010 - Nissan, as recently announced, with their own LiIon and electric-drive system

And of course the multiple quiet outsiders....

[hb06]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(clett @ Sep 29 2006, 05:42 AM) [snapback]325534[/snapback]</div>

Could this finally be an admission that GM have realised just how thermodynamically and economically ridiculous hydrogen-fuelled vehicles are compared to PHEVs?

These words come from the top, from GM's Bob Lutz himself! Some highlights....

"....we’re not putting all of our eggs in the hydrogen basket...."

"....we have several other alternatives in the works in the meantime...."

"....we are also studying plug-in hybrids, and will have more to say about those soon...."

"....rest assured I truly believe that electric-drive vehicles have a real future in this country and around the world...." (!!!!)

"....and yes, believe it or not, this really is Bob Lutz talking!" :o

Maybe, just maybe, the engineers' silly pills have finally run out and somebody's got the message through to the top! B)

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/09/gm...ot_al.html#more
[/b]

Watch the Plug-in "Hybrid" PHEV Video from pluginpartners.org-Compelling way to go
http://pluginpartners.org/

"Plug-In Partners is a national grass-roots initiative to dem-onstrate to automakers that a market for flexible-fuel Plug-In Hybrid Electric Vehicles (PHEV) exists today."

[Pinto Girl]

Lutz's words are sound and fury, signifying nothing...nothing, that is, but attempt to prop up the stock price (and soothe Kirk Kerkorian and the remainder of his faction).

Quarterly earnings and other indicators due out soon from the 'big two' and MBZ/Chrysler. Besides, 'bench racing' cars is LOTS cheaper than building them!

I suspect that GM talks big, but remains a little short on know-how.

[darelldd]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(clett @ Oct 2 2006, 02:18 AM) [snapback]326763[/snapback]</div>

Darell that's dynamite if true!! Pleeaase show use what you've found! Share![/b]

I can only tell you what they've said, and it is all public record... though much of it is likely very hard to find. I heard much of it directly from the horse's mouth so to speak. What they say and what they do may not coincide as much as we'd like. We just have to wait and see how this 360° turn of face pans out for GM. Next they'll bring back the EV1.