Hybrid vehicles losing their appeal? Toyota Prius sales soar in January

[MechaJohn]

<div align="left">Not sure where they got their numbers, but if this is accurate, then the reports about more Prius on Dealers' lots must be due to Toyota catching up on production. Also, it means that gas prices and the rebate were not the only things driving Hybrid sales, as some suspected.</div>

[Rangerdavid]

That's just so cool!! Just goes to show, a lot of people will purchase an alternative vehicle to an ICE only vehicle if it is proven and reliable. So, now there are over 8,200 more people saving more gas and polluting the air less!!! How cool is that?

And, even if the increased commercial advertisements on TV have been a contributing factor, who cares? More hybrids on the road = less pollution, less dependence on gas...

[PA]

Not sure why they titled it "Are hybrid vehicles losing their appeal?" when nothing in the article even raised that question, as the answer appears to be a resounding "No!".

[LazyBear]

Well, in the last three years conventional cars improved significantly and pure electric cars started showing up (Tesla). To be objective you may want to look at CO2 emissions from different cars. There is practically no US data, but data on different cars can be obtained at UK sites.

Did you know, for example, that BMW significantly reduced CO2 emissions from their cars: 1-series in UK emits only 15% more than Prius, 123g/km vs. 104g/km: BMW 1

Even full size sport sedan like 2008 BMW 5 series emits 20% less CO2 than 2007 model and only 65% more CO2 (175g/km) than Prius (104g/km) - and we are talking 6 cylinder 250hp engine.

Tesla electric roadster is available right now and they are planning 4-door full electric AWD sedan with price in 50K range next year or so.

This obviusly shoukd give you an idea why Toyota is working hard on raising both Prius power AND mpg, various sources suggest 1.8L engine with bigger battery, pontentially plug-in and 80mpg. 45mpg is not comparing well anymore.

[hampdenwireless]

There are some people who will not buy a car unless they get it at a discount. Right or wrong, value or not. The vast majority of Prius sales have been done at MSRP in the past. Now they are discounted and readily available. You can go to the lot <not everywhere at have choices. That brings in many who would not buy it before. Toyota should be able to sell as many as they make until the details of the new model spread. If its a major upgrade (as we seem to think) sales of the old model may slow. Luckly for Toyota, HSD is more advanced then anything else on the market so buying a car based on 2004 TOYOTA technology is still more advanced then the reskin job that ford has done on the 2008 Escape.

[Tideland Prius]

I don't think the new model will dampen sales.

There will still be those who don't want to try the new technology and are happy to stick with "tried-and-true" which would be 2004 HSD technology (esp. after seeing all the used cars that function well).

Also, the older model will be discounted heavily.

[usbseawolf2000]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(LazyBear @ Feb 2 2007, 12:12 AM) [snapback]384270[/snapback]</div>

Did you know, for example, that BMW significantly reduced CO2 emissions from their cars: 1-series in UK emits only 15% more than Prius, 123g/km vs. 104g/km: BMW 1[/b]

Come on! You are comparing a Compact 2+1 doors car with a Mid-size 4+1 doors car. BMW 118d has a diesel engine which is known to be low on CO2 emission but much higher on others (HC, PM, etc...). Ignoring the rest does not paint the whole picture.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(LazyBear @ Feb 2 2007, 12:12 AM) [snapback]384270[/snapback]</div>

This obviusly shoukd give you an idea why Toyota is working hard on raising both Prius power AND mpg, various sources suggest 1.8L engine with bigger battery, pontentially plug-in and 80mpg. 45mpg is not comparing well anymore.
[/b]

I say, if Toyota wants to cut down one second in 0-60 mph, they can use higher discharge capable Li-ion battery pack. Current NiMh pack outputs 28 hp (continous) and a burst 34 hp for 10 seconds. If the new Li-ion pack can deliver a burst 51hp for 10 seconds while keeping 76 hp 1.5 liter ICE, they can reach the 9.5 sec goal.

Higher discharge also mean higher rate the HV pack can capture regenerative braking energy. If 0-60 mph acceleration takes 110 hp for 10 secs, braking would need to take 50 seconds to charge the battery at "capable" 22 hp. This is the reason why Prius only captures about 1/3 (not 1/5 because ppl don't floor the brake all the time) of the total braking energy. With the new Li-ion pack, Prius might be able to capture 60-75% of the braking energy.

I see the electric side becoming more powerful and ICE less powerful to achieve higher MPG. What I wish to see is HCCI 1.5 liter ICE instead of 1.8 liter ICE that is newly designed for the new Corola.

Dennis

[DelerPrius]

quote: Tesla electric roadster is available right now and they are planning 4-door full electric AWD sedan with price in 50K range next year or so.


Tesla roadster starts at $92K and the sedan would still be 2x what a well-equipped Prius costs, so not clear how they would be competing for Prius sales...

[LazyBear]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DelerPrius @ Feb 3 2007, 03:46 PM) [snapback]384932[/snapback]</div>

quote: Tesla electric roadster is available right now and they are planning 4-door full electric AWD sedan with price in 50K range next year or so.
Tesla roadster starts at $92K and the sedan would still be 2x what a well-equipped Prius costs, so not clear how they would be competing for Prius sales...
[/b]

They will be competing at least with Lexus sales. Prius is not the cheapest car size/luxury/amenities wise, so Prius buyers don't buy it because they want to save money on gas or car. Many Prius drivers can afford more expensive cars (at least among Prius drivers I know personally). Tesla is zero (as in 0) emission car AND its FAST. I personally would buy Tesla sedan right away. 50-60K is a typical luxury sedan price range, Lexus GS, Audi A6, BMW 5, so price is not that outrageous for a fast car provided it comes with right trimmings like leather, nav, xenon and decent sound system.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(usbseawolf2000 @ Feb 3 2007, 12:20 PM) [snapback]384874[/snapback]</div>

Come on! You are comparing a Compact 2+1 doors car with a Mid-size 4+1 doors car. BMW 118d has a diesel engine which is known to be low on CO2 emission but much higher on others (HC, PM, etc...). Ignoring the rest does not paint the whole picture.
[/b]

Of course they don't compare exactly, but some people who were concerned with CO2 emissions may choose not to get hybrid and instead get BMW since it is close enough (and you get prestigious badge). EU taxes cars based on CO2, so other emissions may or may not count. US is different, of course.

Point it - if gasoline car emits 2-3x CO2 compared to Prius, for someone who is somewhat (but not to extreme) concerned with CO2 emissions the choice is a no-brainer. However, if gasoline or diesel car only produces 20-30% more, the choice becomes more difficult (again, for ordinary folks, not for dye-in-wool treehuggers :-)) Sales don't drop, but growth slows down since Toyota may be getting less customers than it could. So they are making even more efficient Prius since other car makers don't sleep.

[nerfer]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MechaJohn @ Feb 1 2007, 04:22 PM) [snapback]384132[/snapback]</div>

<div align="left">

Despite lower gas prices and a federal tax credit that was reduced by 50 percent, the Toyota Prius had its best January on record, selling 8,299 units.
:
Not sure where they got their numbers, but if this is accurate, then the reports about more Prius on Dealers' lots must be due to Toyota catching up on production. Also, it means that gas prices and the rebate were not the only things driving Hybrid sales, as some suspected.

[/b][/quote]
Soultek updated their article on the Prius:
http://www.soultek.com/clean_energy/hybrid...rius_hybrid.htm

Sales up 4% from last January, but what I thought significant is that Toyota is planning making 200K Prii for the U.S. market this year, almost double of last year! For reference, in 2004 they sold 53K Prii, 2005 about 100K, last year held steady for a couple reasons. So this is a major push, no wonder they've been putting ads on TV.

For comparison, the top-selling sedans in the U.S. sell about 300,000 cars/year. (Camry, Accord, Chevy Impala).

Expect more users at PriusChat!!!