Toyota to use lithium batteries in next generation of hybrids

[jstack]

Toyota confirmed they will use lithium batteries in the 2008 model of hybrids. These will increase the mpg and add the possibility of more battery storage. A test unit they have been using gets 94 mpg.

Business Week's March 5 issue has several articles about Toyota. We have three items below.
First, a sidebar in which CEO Katsuaki Watanabe confirms that the next-generation Prius (model
year 2009, out late 2008 or early 2009) will use lithium-ion batteries. So much for rumors about an early plug-in.

The second story contains the opposite of what we hoped for, and logically expected. In an
accompanying Q&A (online only) Watanabe promises (astonishingly that the new Prius will have "much
higher performance and good mileage per gallon." We interpret this to mean a bit better MPG that
drivers need and much quicker 0-60MPG to Prius owners who love the safe handling and pep of the current car.

The context is, of course, the national attention to PHEVs getting 100+MPG of gasoline, plus
electricity. On the plus side, we were pleasantly surprised when the Toyota website
<http://www.calcars. org/calcars- news/694. html>
published its poll showing that 39% of respondents wanted PHEVs; a total of 94% wanted
PHEVs/higher fuel economy/alternative fuel hybrids and only 6% wanted "higher power output".
On the minus side, we were unimpressed by new billboard ads touting Prius as "PRIUS. 60 MILES
AND MILES AND MILES AND MILES AND MILES PER GALLON." The billboards have a small footnote,
saying EPA Estimated City MPG -- but ads on pumps at independent gas stations show the car with a
"60MPG" sticker with no footnote. (The Prius sticker says 50MPG highway/60 MPG city. Until now
the company has summarized that as 55 MPG. Soon, with revised EPA tests, the car will probably
average around 45-48MPG, which is close to what most drivers experience.) We can supply photos
for journalists of the billboards and gas-tank signs.

Third is from the main print story "Why Toyota Is Afraid of Being Number One," which is mostly
about the company's current push on powerful trucks and its continuing fears of a backlash in
the U.S. We excerpt some history on its early hybrids, including the company's relationship
with the Sierra Club, and its early successes in Hollywood (this Oscar season somewhat shadowed by PHEVs and EVs).

Toyota's Bid for a Better Battery
CEO Watanabe confirms that Toyota will develop new lithium-ion batteries for its third-generation hybrids
http://www.business week.com/ magazine/ content/07_ 10/b4024075. htm

[jstack]

The latest news updates show Toyota has been testing a plug-in hybrid using double NiMH battery packs just like the single one we now have. This is proven and makes a huge difference.

Toyota still says it won't be commercially available until 2010 and first to fleets. To keep the pressure up a China company BYD will make a plug-in hybrid this year. They may import to the US in 2010. GM also says the new batteries lithium they are testing are very good, they are firming up 2010 for the volt E-Flex with 40 mile all electric range.

This is turning into a very interesting race. Below is a list from EVworld.com of the many plug-in hybrids ready to plug in.


AFV Trinity

• Saturn VUE [conversion/XH drive]

BYD/China

• F6 DM [pre-production]

Chrysler LLC

• Jeep Renegade [concept]
• Chrysler ecoVoyager [concept]

Fisker

• Karma [pre-production]

General Motors

• Saturn Vue Green Line [pre-production]
• Cadillac Provoq [concept]
• Saturn Flextreme [concept]
• Chevy Volt [pre-production - introduced 2007 NAIAS]

Toyota

• Prius [production 2010]

Visionary Vehicles

• EVX [concept]

Volvo

. Volvo ReCharge Concept to Offer 60-miles Electric Range

[Tideland Prius]

*moved*

Putting it in the Prius and Hybrid News section will generate more replies.

[usbseawolf2000]

A lot of companies are bringing out EV / Plugin electric cars. I am aware of only one company actually collecting real-world data from real people globally with their needs and balancing out the range vs. price etc... That company is Toyota.

While others are trying to prove that the spec on paper can be build and committing to build a car by the reaction / emotion at car shows is not too wise.

A lot of companies make up these concepts without actually intended to put them into production. Sure, their specs are high, looks nice and make a great advertisement to make themselves green. Tell us about the price when they are actually selling.

A lot of people also discredit HSD by focusing on the green image. HSD is so popular not because the image. But because it actually delivers the hybrid premium features and advantages.

[Flying White Dutchman]

i hope
toyota wil bring lion batteries to the 2004-2010 priusII hsd
so you can upgrade your NMH to LION and maybe even a plugin

[PoulStaugaard]

As many of us have experienced with our laptop computers, Li-ion batteries have a tendency to lose their capacity over time. A two-year old battery will often have lost half of it's original capacity. I don't really see anyone claiming that they have solved that problem, which is a big one unless the cost of the batteries comes down dramatically. It's not like with Toyota's NIMH batteries where the problem can be avoided by keeping the state of charge within limits.

[drees]

Originally Posted by usbseawolf2000

I am aware of only one company actually collecting real-world data from real people globally with their needs and balancing out the range vs. price etc... That company is Toyota.

Ford has some plug-in Escapes rolling around in some test-fleets for electric companies, so Toyota is not the only one.

[clett]

Originally Posted by PoulStaugaard

Li-ion batteries have a tendency to lose their capacity over time. A two-year old battery will often have lost half of it's original capacity

These problems have been completely solved by companies like Altair and A123 using nanotech electrodes which are much more immune to calender or cycle induced dendrimer formation (the reason for old-skool lithium battery ageing). The Altair cells can go 15,000 cycles of fast (10 minute) 100% discharge with no apparent ageing or loss of capacity.

You won't see these batteries emerging in your laptops or cell phones any time soon, as they are more suited to automotive use, not small appliances (ie they are oriented for power and safety, not light weight and run time).

[usbseawolf2000]

Originally Posted by drees

Ford has some plug-in Escapes rolling around in some test-fleets for electric companies, so Toyota is not the only one.

I thought Ford is doing with it's Fleet customers only in US.

Toyota is letting CA residents do the actual driving with the study under UCLA(?). Smiliar study is going on in France, etc...

[Flying White Dutchman]

Lion in 2008 models? its alrady 2008!!

you mean more like 2010 models?