Toyota says no to new Lithium batteries

mywhitenoise · 05-30-2007, 01:35 PM

http://jalopnik.com/cars/over-the-back-fen...llon-264397.php

**Tideland Prius** · 05-30-2007, 05:37 PM

dang.. really? Hmm... but I thought the cost of NiMH batteries were going up (instead of down)?

ohershey · 05-30-2007, 07:36 PM

They won't use LiIon because of safety concerns? maybe they can license the technology from Tesla:
http://www.teslamotors.com/engineering/safety.php

jstack · 05-30-2007, 07:43 PM

EVerything I have read only says Toyota won't offer the plug-in option yet. They have committed to putting lithium ion batteries in the 2008 Prius. It still won't plug in yet but can get 90 mpg because of the extra battery capacity and it's lighter weight.

In fact Totoya is making their own batteries so they will have full control of the quaility and supply. This is a big step ahead for all drivers.

I feel that in the very near future they will offer the 2 3, or 4 pack of ectra battery capacity and a plug. When you want to plugin you can get power at about 80 cents a energy equivelent or just be lazxy and use gas at whatever it may be . Off peak NASA extimated we could charge 80% of the vehicles with no new power plants.

toyotablackbox · 05-30-2007, 07:50 PM

I dunno, Toyota might be spreading rumors around so people don't get too excited about the next gen Prius and stop buying 07s like hotcakes. I'm sure whatever battery technology the next Prius has will be improved over the current Prius, as well as new styling and technology innovations that will be introduced for 08/09. I have confidence that Toyota will do the right thing, which is more than I can say for G.M. with its lousy 40-mile range Volt that can't seem to find any batteries. What happened to the 150-mile EV1? 100-mile RAV4EV?

DeadPhish · 05-30-2007, 08:37 PM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(toyotablackbox @ May 30 2007, 07:50 PM) [snapback]452390[/snapback]</div>

Quote:

I dunno, Toyota might be spreading rumors around so people don't get too excited about the next gen Prius and stop buying 07s like hotcakes. I'm sure whatever battery technology the next Prius has will be improved over the current Prius, as well as new styling and technology innovations that will be introduced for 08/09. I have confidence that Toyota will do the right thing, which is more than I can say for G.M. with its lousy 40-mile range Volt that can't seem to find any batteries. What happened to the 150-mile EV1? 100-mile RAV4EV?
[/b]

This is my take as well. Earlier this month an Engineer for Toyota said that they'd have the LiIon batteries in the 2009 modell in 18 mo's. There's all this hype about 100+ mpg vehicles and I think this is a splash of the cold water of reality being thrown on the hype.

A 55H / 60C ( new EPA rules ) Prius using similar HSD technology but using LiIon batteries seems more likely for the next Gen IMO.

clett · 05-31-2007, 11:29 AM

I doubt Toyota will back down from using lithium-ion since both the company president and head of hybrid development have said the LiIon cells were ready for use.

More to the point, the whole 3rd gen Prius has been designed around the smaller, lighter LiIon packs with a much higher voltage, so to switch back to old-skool NiMH would require almost a complete redesign. I doubt they'd do this at such a late stage in the day.

MickeyA · 05-31-2007, 12:04 PM

I hope since Toyota is considered a big 'US' company, that it doesn't fall into the oil Syriana trap.

ie: Big Oil influencing car manufacturers.

We need this technology now!

finman · 05-31-2007, 01:48 PM

With chevron holding large-scale NiMH battery tech (after GM sold it to Texaco, later becoming Chevron...stupid, stupid) I would bet the oil companies are pulling out all stops to get a hand in the lithium market to continue their stranglehold.

Why not?

We are just not smart enough as a species to do the right, sensible thing for the greater good. If it makes money for a few powerful, then no holds barred. If it does MANY, MANY people good, then crush it and hope no one makes a movie about it.

darelldd · 06-01-2007, 12:20 AM

Well... when I got to the worry of "leaking acid" I pretty much gave up what they had to say.

Li-Ion is here folks. Built right you can fire a bullet through it, shove 30kW into it in under ten minutes, Recharge it 3,000 times.... and it doesn't turn around and bite you. I'm not buying this "coverage." The last official word from Toyota is that the next gen Prius WILL have Li-Ion. Won't have a plug though!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(finman @ May 31 2007, 10:48 AM) [snapback]452675[/snapback]</div>

Quote:

We are just not smart enough as a species to do the right, sensible thing for the greater good. If it makes money for a few powerful, then no holds barred. If it does MANY, MANY people good, then crush it and hope no one makes a movie about it.
[/b]

Sometimes you sound so much like me, that I get scared.

05-30-2007, 07:50 PM	#5
toyotablackbox Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 63 My Car: Model: Package: Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Friends: 0	I dunno, Toyota might be spreading rumors around so people don't get too excited about the next gen Prius and stop buying 07s like hotcakes. I'm sure whatever battery technology the next Prius has will be improved over the current Prius, as well as new styling and technology innovations that will be introduced for 08/09. I have confidence that Toyota will do the right thing, which is more than I can say for G.M. with its lousy 40-mile range Volt that can't seem to find any batteries. What happened to the 150-mile EV1? 100-mile RAV4EV? __________________ 1994 Toyota Tecel EV: full electric conversion. liquid silver metallic. mods: low rolling resistance tires, rear adjustable air-shocks to support battery weight, LED interior illumination, 110VAC outlet in gas door for re-charging via on-board charger, PDA linked computer controller system, custom science/technology/innovation license plates. - 2007 Toyota Prius Touring Pack 3: classic silver metallic. mods: shark fin antenna, all weather mats, white 1W LEDs for map, dome, cargo, vanity, and door lights, aqua LED ambiance lighting for footwells, plastic seat-mounted tray tables for eating lunch/snacks in the back seat. Upgraded from a 2006 Prius Pack 0

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05-30-2007, 01:35 PM	#1
mywhitenoise Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 209 My Car: 2005 Prius Model: Package: #6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Friends: 0	http://jalopnik.com/cars/over-the-back-fen...llon-264397.php

05-30-2007, 05:37 PM	#2
Tideland Prius Moderator of the North Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 19,633 My Car: 2010 Prius Model: N/A Package: Technology Package (Canada) Thanks: 229 Thanked 346 Times in 245 Posts Friends: 23	dang.. really? Hmm... but I thought the cost of NiMH batteries were going up (instead of down)?

05-30-2007, 07:36 PM	#3
ohershey Because, if I wear it anywhere else, it chafes. Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 633 My Car: Model: Package: Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Friends: 0	They won't use LiIon because of safety concerns? maybe they can license the technology from Tesla: http://www.teslamotors.com/engineering/safety.php

05-30-2007, 07:43 PM	#4
jstack Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 191 My Car: 2005 Prius Model: I Package: B Thanks: 1 Thanked 27 Times in 25 Posts Friends: 0	EVerything I have read only says Toyota won't offer the plug-in option yet. They have committed to putting lithium ion batteries in the 2008 Prius. It still won't plug in yet but can get 90 mpg because of the extra battery capacity and it's lighter weight. In fact Totoya is making their own batteries so they will have full control of the quaility and supply. This is a big step ahead for all drivers. I feel that in the very near future they will offer the 2 3, or 4 pack of ectra battery capacity and a plug. When you want to plugin you can get power at about 80 cents a energy equivelent or just be lazxy and use gas at whatever it may be . Off peak NASA extimated we could charge 80% of the vehicles with no new power plants.

05-31-2007, 11:29 AM	#7
clett Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Scotland Posts: 503 My Car: Other Non-Hybrid Model: Package: N/A Thanks: 0 Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts Friends: 0	I doubt Toyota will back down from using lithium-ion since both the company president and head of hybrid development have said the LiIon cells were ready for use. More to the point, the whole 3rd gen Prius has been designed around the smaller, lighter LiIon packs with a much higher voltage, so to switch back to old-skool NiMH would require almost a complete redesign. I doubt they'd do this at such a late stage in the day.

05-31-2007, 12:04 PM	#8
MickeyA Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 81 My Car: Model: Package: Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post Friends: 0	I hope since Toyota is considered a big 'US' company, that it doesn't fall into the oil Syriana trap. ie: Big Oil influencing car manufacturers. We need this technology now!

05-31-2007, 01:48 PM	#9
finman Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Rapid City, SD Posts: 992 My Car: 2004 Prius Model: Package: #7 Thanks: 14 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts Friends: 0	With chevron holding large-scale NiMH battery tech (after GM sold it to Texaco, later becoming Chevron...stupid, stupid) I would bet the oil companies are pulling out all stops to get a hand in the lithium market to continue their stranglehold. Why not? We are just not smart enough as a species to do the right, sensible thing for the greater good. If it makes money for a few powerful, then no holds barred. If it does MANY, MANY people good, then crush it and hope no one makes a movie about it.