Plug-in Hybrids

[jkash]

PLUG-IN HYBRIDS
Making green cars greener costs a bundle
With $24,000 add-on, plug-in Toyota Prius is mostly for rich

Want to be the first on your block with a $50,000 Toyota Prius?

Head to Hybrids Plus in Boulder, Colo., and leave your Prius with their technicians. Go skiing or something, come back in three or four days with a check for $24,000 and you will have one of the nation's very few plug-in hybrids that should easily get 100 miles per gallon.

A plug-in is an ordinary hybrid with an electric motor and gasoline engine that has been modified -- usually by upgrading its battery pack or adding more batteries -- so it can go a lot farther on electric power than it normally does. On Thursday, a study funded by the Natural Resources Defense Council and a power-industry group lined up behind advocates in dubbing plug-ins the car of the future, albeit the distant future.

That study said greenhouse gas emissions and domestic oil consumption would drop sharply if plug-in hybrid technology became widespread by 2050. Mass production of the vehicles, however, is years away.

Still, Bay Area Prius lovers can have their very own supergreen car right now -- for a price.

A normal Prius retails at a Toyota showroom for about $23,000, but frequently sells for more because the cars are in such demand.

Hybrids Plus is one of the few outfits in the country that, for another $24,000 or so, will remove the nickel metal hydride battery that comes with the Prius and replace it with a more powerful lithium ion battery.

"We're converting cars for private customers," said Hybrids Plus CEO Carl Lawrence. "We have a guy coming in Thursday. He's buying the extension pack that doubles the range. That's an additional $8,000" -- making it a $60,000 Prius.

Read more.

[des101]

Of course they aren't mass produced, that would probably bring the price down and then the other thing is that I think new technologies tend to cost more and be for the rich initially. I don't think there is anything wrong with the rich paying R&D.

--des

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jkash @ Jul 22 2007, 01:08 AM) [snapback]483065[/snapback]</div>

PLUG-IN HYBRIDS
Making green cars greener costs a bundle
With $24,000 add-on, plug-in Toyota Prius is mostly for rich

Want to be the first on your block with a $50,000 Toyota Prius?

Head to Hybrids Plus in Boulder, Colo., and leave your Prius with their technicians. Go skiing or something, come back in three or four days with a check for $24,000 and you will have one of the nation's very few plug-in hybrids that should easily get 100 miles per gallon.

A plug-in is an ordinary hybrid with an electric motor and gasoline engine that has been modified -- usually by upgrading its battery pack or adding more batteries -- so it can go a lot farther on electric power than it normally does. On Thursday, a study funded by the Natural Resources Defense Council and a power-industry group lined up behind advocates in dubbing plug-ins the car of the future, albeit the distant future.

That study said greenhouse gas emissions and domestic oil consumption would drop sharply if plug-in hybrid technology became widespread by 2050. Mass production of the vehicles, however, is years away.

Still, Bay Area Prius lovers can have their very own supergreen car right now -- for a price.

A normal Prius retails at a Toyota showroom for about $23,000, but frequently sells for more because the cars are in such demand.

Hybrids Plus is one of the few outfits in the country that, for another $24,000 or so, will remove the nickel metal hydride battery that comes with the Prius and replace it with a more powerful lithium ion battery.

"We're converting cars for private customers," said Hybrids Plus CEO Carl Lawrence. "We have a guy coming in Thursday. He's buying the extension pack that doubles the range. That's an additional $8,000" -- making it a $60,000 Prius.

Read more.
[/b]

[Godiva]

Or wait until first quarter 2008 and get a Hymotion 20 mile ($5,000) or 40 mile ($10,000) installed in a few hours by Pat's Garage of San Francisco.

[hampdenwireless]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Jul 22 2007, 01:48 AM) [snapback]483077[/snapback]</div>

Or wait until first quarter 2008 and get a Hymotion 20 mile ($5,000) or 40 mile ($10,000) installed in a few hours by Pat's Garage of San Francisco.
[/b]

I think Pat is going to find he is doing it for charity or going to have to raise his prices. Hybrids plus is charging too much but Pat is probobly not charging enough. I would be glad to pay $5000 for a plug in and will do it if someone closer to me <even a 600 mile drive> would do it for that price.

Sure he may make a 'profit' of $1000 before overhead expenses. Its not going to be enough for it to be an on going business.

[mwalsh]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hampdenwireless @ Jul 22 2007, 09:44 AM) [snapback]483159[/snapback]</div>

Sure he may make a 'profit' of $1000 before overhead expenses. Its not going to be enough for it to be an on going business.
[/b]

Assuming he's only capable of converting 3 cars per working day, on $1000 'profit' per car (even if it were before expenses) I suspect he'll make plenty. I also suspect there will be a sizable waiting list for the work.

But, yes, I think you're right anyway in that he should charge ever so slightly more (or obtain a better deal on the kits) to give him a more comfortable margin. I mean why not.....what is it they say about hay and sunshine.

[hampdenwireless]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mwalsh @ Jul 22 2007, 02:41 PM) [snapback]483205[/snapback]</div>

Assuming he's only capable of converting 3 cars per working day, on $1000 'profit' per car (even if it were before expenses) I suspect he'll make plenty. I also suspect there will be a sizable waiting list for the work.

But, yes, I think you're right anyway in that he should charge ever so slightly more (or obtain a better deal on the kits) to give him a more comfortable margin. I mean why not.....what is it they say about hay and sunshine.
[/b]

I doubt a single person running a complete business would do more then one a day, maybe less.

If the equipment is assembled by someone else the profits will be lower, if one person needs to make the controllers , assemble the battery packs, etc it will be much slower. Extra employees mean extra costs.

Again I would gladly support someone selling at that kind of price. Its just hard to sustain as a business.

Just assume two employees earning $35,000 each. After normal costs of insurance, both sides of taxes, and all the fun other extras it usually runs close to $100,000 a year just for employees and associated costs.

[mwalsh]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hampdenwireless @ Jul 22 2007, 11:54 AM) [snapback]483211[/snapback]</div>

I doubt a single person running a complete business would do more then one a day, maybe less.

If the equipment is assembled by someone else the profits will be lower, if one person needs to make the controllers , assemble the battery packs, etc it will be much slower. Extra employees mean extra costs.

Again I would gladly support someone selling at that kind of price. Its just hard to sustain as a business.

Just assume two employees earning $35,000 each. After normal costs of insurance, both sides of taxes, and all the fun other extras it usually runs close to $100,000 a year just for employees and associated costs.
[/b]

There are like 5 guys who work at Pat's. And they service and repar Japanese cars (I think they specilaize in Honda and Acura IIRC). So the business model of adding the hybrid conversions at a reasonable cost is not necessarily a bad one.

[Godiva]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hampdenwireless @ Jul 22 2007, 11:44 AM) [snapback]483159[/snapback]</div>

I think Pat is going to find he is doing it for charity or going to have to raise his prices.[/b]

That's just for the cost of the kit. I'm not sure it includes the installation or not. Hymotion is in Canada and Pat's is the only licensed installer in California. They flew down to San Diego to do a conversion for two Prii for SDG&E. I'm sure SDG&E picked up the tab for that. Otherwise, not sure how it works.

But I doubt that price includes two guys from Pat's flying to wherever you are and installing the system. But whatever the cost is....it's still less than $24,000.

[mwalsh]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Jul 22 2007, 12:05 PM) [snapback]483219[/snapback]</div>

But I doubt that price includes two guys from Pat's flying to wherever you are and installing the system. But whatever the cost is....it's still less than $24,000.
[/b]

That I can't see them doing (OK they did it for SDG&E, but that was just a publicity deal). But I suspect they'll be scheduling installs for anybody willing to make the trip to SFO and stick around for a day or so.

[kinghuang]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Jul 22 2007, 01:05 PM) [snapback]483219[/snapback]</div>

Hymotion is in Canada and Pat's is the only licensed installer in California.
[/b]

Huh, I never noticed that Hymotion is in Canada. I wonder if there'll be a Canadian PHEV installer, too?