GM introducing plug-in hybrid Saturn Vue in 2009

[justlurkin]

Originally posted by Jonnycat26
He'd never know.

Well, now he does.

[Duffer]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JustLurkin @ Sep 18 2007, 10:59 PM) [snapback]514628[/snapback]</div>

Well, now he does.
[/b]

Thanks for the info, I won't be stepping back to move forward in a Saturn anytime soon then. People have always been looking for effortless acceleration and auto manufacturers have added more power to the engine over the years to satisfy the wants. The problem is not the engine, it is the transmission. The 4-speed auto is too limited by it's 4 fixed ratios to provide the power management available with a CVT. Perhaps GM will one day scrape up enough pennies to design and manufacture a CVT for their own vehicles, I heard that they stayed with the outdated 4-speed to save money.
Just where did GMs forward thinking management staff think that they would be today? I wonder...

[Jonnycat26]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JustLurkin @ Sep 18 2007, 10:59 PM) [snapback]514628[/snapback]</div>

Well, now he does.
[/b]

If that's the case, it makes the Prius look like a One-Speed transmission.

[Marlin]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hill @ Sep 18 2007, 09:53 PM) [snapback]514598[/snapback]</div>

No, the difference is the Toyotas are REAL. The Toyota "Test-Mule" PEHV's actually ARE on the road ... right now. GM's just blowing more sphincter air on you. Yes, Toyotas are on the road, while GM simply continues to SAY, rather than do. Heck, what'd you expect GM to say about their latest vapor ware / non-real project ... that they'd only have 7 miles? Heck, if you're gona spin, do it right! Make up a story that's BETTER than the #1 company's REAL car. What else CAN they do. Of COURSE they picked a random number higher than the company that's eating their lunch. Next? GM will spin their entire fleet will be PHeV's. You know ... about the time they figure out hydrogen (just {another} ten years).

And don't forget ... Toyota didn't brag, "We're gona do such and such ... some day" as GM does. WHAM. They simply put 'em on the road. The only thing GM does (historicly) without fan fare is take back and crush the last great EV.
So Pah-leeez ... the old, "well they're bad too" thing simply doesn't wash.
[/b]

You guys are so easy. You make my point for me. VBsportbiker wasn't criticizing GM for vaporware or anything like that. He was rather stating how pathetic GM was for even proposing to come out with a plugin hybrid with EV range of a mere 10 miles. The aim of my post was simply to point out the conflict and double-standard that I suspect he has when it comes to Toyota. I suspect that he would have thought a 10 mile EV range was just fine if it had been a Toyota announcement he was reading.

As a side note, I still think you guys are overemphisizing this "certified for road use in Japan" thing. While I do not doubt that Toyota will produce a plugin hybrid some day, I think that announcement doesn't really mean much. It just means they got permission to drive their prototypes on the roads. It does not mean that the car will be in show rooms any time soon. It may very well be, but this road certification of the prototype isn't proof it will be. As evidence of such, I would point out that Honda received the same certification for it's hydrogen fuel cell prototype years ago. I would expect that the certification means little more than that the prototypes have the correct amount of power, brakes, lights, and safety restraints to be driven on Japan's roads.

[finman]

I see "re-fueling" depots all around me for a plug-in hybrid.

I see none for Hydrogen.

Case closed.

Plug me in, Toyota. I'm ready.

[Tideland Prius]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Sep 19 2007, 05:14 AM) [snapback]514738[/snapback]</div>

If that's the case, it makes the Prius look like a One-Speed transmission.
[/b]

Umm... I think the PSD IS a one speed transmission

[john1701a]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tideland Prius @ Sep 19 2007, 10:46 AM) [snapback]514789[/snapback]</div>

Umm... I think the PSD IS a one speed transmission
[/b]

Some of the discussions turn into pointless debates with the greatest of ease. Sticking to the real-world data really ticks some enthusiasts off, but it is the obvious best approach. So semantic issues like "speed" and "mode" don't hold much water.

MPG, PRICE, and SALES are what ultimately matter. That's genuine merit earned.

[chogan]

It's also worth noting what the Toyota PHEV prototype actually is: its a Prius with a bigger NIHM battery pack, an on-board charger, and modified software. Here's a description:

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/07/25/to...ius-road-tests/

Toyota is simulating how a PHEV Prius might perform, using NIHM not (the presumed eventual) Li-ion.

So it's not clear who's ahead at this point. Toyota's stated reason for not moving to Li-ion for the 2009 Prius was a concern over safety. No safe Li-ion = no production PHEV. But the A123 batteries are already being put into Prius PHEV conversions, so either GM has a safe battery or is less concerned about safety.

My take is that Toyota has a platform but no battery, GM has a battery but no platform. So Toyota nixes Li-ion in 2009 Prius, GM announces production of 10 mile PHEH Vue in 2009. It's at least plausible that GM actually has the jump on this and has the sense to follow through.

[Massageguy]

Isn't there a Ford Escape Hybrid small SUV that gets fairly good mpg for its size ?

[micheal]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(chogan @ Sep 19 2007, 01:42 PM) [snapback]514815[/snapback]</div>

My take is that Toyota has a platform but no battery, GM has a battery but no platform. So Toyota nixes Li-ion in 2009 Prius, GM announces production of 10 mile PHEH Vue in 2009. It's at least plausible that GM actually has the jump on this and has the sense to follow through.
[/b]

The great thing (more ironic I guess) is that the GM spokesperson never promised to produce the PHEV Vue in 2009. He stated 2009-ish. Does that mean 2009, 2010, 2011 or even further down the pipeline? I personally won't believe it until I see it at the dealership based on the previous deadlines they have missed.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(AnnArborite @ Sep 19 2007, 09:08 PM) [snapback]515036[/snapback]</div>

Isn't there a Ford Escape Hybrid small SUV that gets fairly good mpg for its size ?
[/b]

It gets 34 city/30 hwy, vs 20 city/26hwy based on the new estimates.