2009 Prius News from Dealer

[OUscarb]

Just thought I would pass this along. It may be common knowledge by now. I was at Fowler Toyota in Norman Ok getting my oil changed today. While waiting, I spoke with a salesman who had just sold an 08 Prius. He asked if I was interested in trading my 06 in? He said they really need good used Prius. I said about 6 months, he said I should wait then to get an 09'. I asked why, he replied" the info I have is that the 09 will have a cosmetic makeover, and that Japan is saying the 09's EPA will be around 72-75 acording to the new testing structure".

Don't know, but he seemed very confident of this.

OUscarb

[Tech_Guy]

We'll just have to wait and see what the 09's look and perform like.... Personally , I never trust a salesman about future features.

Keith

[Rest]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(OUscarb @ Oct 9 2007, 07:00 PM) [snapback]523381[/snapback]</div>

Japan is saying the 09's EPA will be around 72-75 acording to the new testing structure[/b]

Sounds like new batteries and plug in may actually be happening then. That be the only way they could get 72-75mpg with the new EPA ratings.

[richard schumacher]

72-75 EPA MPGs is not credible.

[Eric Nothman]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(richard schumacher @ Oct 9 2007, 10:53 PM) [snapback]523415[/snapback]</div>

72-75 EPA MPGs is not credible.
[/b]

A more reputable source (Bill Reinert - National manager Advanced Technology for Toyota) stated last year in a conference of auto executives that they have about 20-25% additional capability for the next generation Prius that could be used for either fuel economy or additional power. If it were 25% and that was all applied to fuel economy, then the next generation Prius might get as much as 60 mpg in the new EPA ratings (combined city/hiway). However, it appears this may not happen in the 09 models based on other news reports about potential delays due to a switch back to NiHM battery from the Lithium Ion that is under development.

One could argue that Toyota does not need to rush the next generation of Prius since the current generation still is so hot (reportedly only 10 days average on the lot four years into this model!) where it now apparently holds third place in Toyota's US line up in terms of yearly sales after the Camry and Corolla.

[Blegate]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Eric Nothman @ Oct 9 2007, 10:26 PM) [snapback]523431[/snapback]</div>

A more reputable source (Bill Reinert - National manager Advanced Technology for Toyota) stated last year in a conference of auto executives that they have about 20-25% additional capability for the next generation Prius that could be used for either fuel economy or additional power. If it were 25% and that was all applied to fuel economy, then the next generation Prius might get as much as 60 mpg in the new EPA ratings (combined city/hiway). However, it appears this may not happen in the 09 models based on other news reports about potential delays due to a switch back to NiHM battery from the Lithium Ion that is under development.

One could argue that Toyota does not need to rush the next generation of Prius since the current generation still is so hot (reportedly only 10 days average on the lot four years into this model!) where it now apparently holds third place in Toyota's US line up in terms of yearly sales after the Camry and Corolla.
[/b]

I heard it will have a larger battery capacity and/or possibly an enhanced electric motor would be the means to increase mpg. Unsure if it will be NiHM or Li-ion. Personally I'm not so keen on Li-ion given notebooks, ipods, etc. bursting into flames. I know different technology exists to counter act fire but still.....

[efusco]

A search for '09 Prius will reveal a lot of info, most of it pretty consistant with what your dealer told you. But nothing official has been said by Toyota yet...other than they're using NiMH and not Li batteries.

We fully expect some cosemetic changes and certainly improved performance. Some relatively reliable sources suggest that the ICE will be 1.8 liter, offering more power, but still will give improved FE over the current model.

[DeadPhish]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Eric Nothman @ Oct 9 2007, 11:26 PM) [snapback]523431[/snapback]</div>

A more reputable source (Bill Reinert - National manager Advanced Technology for Toyota) stated last year in a conference of auto executives that they have about 20-25% additional capability for the next generation Prius that could be used for either fuel economy or additional power. If it were 25% and that was all applied to fuel economy, then the next generation Prius might get as much as 60 mpg in the new EPA ratings (combined city/hiway). However, it appears this may not happen in the 09 models based on other news reports about potential delays due to a switch back to NiHM battery from the Lithium Ion that is under development.

One could argue that Toyota does not need to rush the next generation of Prius since the current generation still is so hot (reportedly only 10 days average on the lot four years into this model!) where it now apparently holds third place in Toyota's US line up in terms of yearly sales after the Camry and Corolla.
[/b]

This is more credible. As long ago as 2 yrs in the past when the late Dave Hermance was asked about 100 mpg Prius and or plugins he intimated that a 20-25% increase is more likely. He was never a strong proponent of PHEV's if I remember correctly.

I'd expect the new '09s to be here in late 08 or early 09 with FE values in the mid 50 range or as high as 60 mpg using the new methodology.

[daniel]

Car salespeople are the least reliable of all possible sources of information about the Prius. We've all read accounts here on PC of some of the surprisingly stupid things people have been told by the sales staff at dealerships.

Now that I'm driving all-electric 27 days out of 30, I won't buy a new Prius unless it's EV or PHEV-40 or better. PHEV-60 would get me into one in a heartbeat, as I could then make it to Coeur d'Alene and back without running the ICE. I'd seriously consider PHEV-40, since 45 miles is the range of my Xebra, and to be safe I take the Prius if I'm planning to go 40 miles or more.

If the '09 Prius is not PHEV, and it sounds like it won't be, I'll stick with my '04. It's a great car and the only trouble I've ever had with it was when the c/c stalk broke (the plastic physically broke) and it was replaced under warranty.

[Tideland Prius]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Oct 10 2007, 05:29 AM) [snapback]523523[/snapback]</div>

A search for '09 Prius will reveal a lot of info, most of it pretty consistant with what your dealer told you. But nothing official has been said by Toyota yet...other than they're using NiMH and not Li batteries.

We fully expect some cosemetic changes and certainly improved performance. Some relatively reliable sources suggest that the ICE will be 1.8 liter, offering more power, but still will give improved FE over the current model.
[/b]

The new ZR engines are pretty efficient. With the Corolla, they were targeting a 5-10% improvement in fuel economy using this new 1.8 litre + CVT vs. the old 1ZZ 1.8 litre + 4-spd auto.

So I wouldn't be surprised if this engine helps boost fuel economy in the Prius (even though it's larger) and of course power. Again, it can be detuned and run on the Atkinson cycle. On the 2009 Corolla/Matrix and the current Scion xD, it produces about 126hp and roughly 122lb-ft.