Toyota to halve hybrid price for next Prius

[IsrAmeriPrius]

Toyota to halve hybrid price for next Prius
[excerpts]

TOKYO (Reuters) - Toyota will slash the price and size of its hybrid system by around half for the next-generation Prius model, and use a nickel-metal hydride battery instead of lithium-ion, a top executive said.

"When we went from the first-generation Prius to the second-generation, we did the same thing," Executive Vice President Kazuo Okamoto, in charge of Toyota's research and development, told reporters in Tokyo.To give sales of future hybrid models a boost, Okamoto said Toyota would design all of its gasoline-electric cars in a way that would make them instantly recognisable as a hybrid -- for example through a unique front grille.

Okamoto conceded that diesel engines were inherently better suited for saving fuel over long-distance cruising than hybrids, which capture energy lost during stop-and-start city driving. But he stressed that Toyota's future hybrids would be just as good -- if not better -- than today's diesels on the highway.[/b]

[MarinJohn]

Imagine a corporation having the goal to half the cost of a product (twice) without being 'forced' to! What do these people think? They're in business for the long haul? Amateurs!

[Robert Fisher]

What do these people think? They're in business for the long haul? Amateurs!

I was most fortunate to have been forced to study under the E. Deming approach toward business during my gainful employment era. Toyota actually reeks of the Deming ideology, and because of applying this approach to their business & ongoing product refinements, is a testimonial to their customer satisfaction achievements. Maybe GM, Chrysler, Ford are drifting toward being the "amateurs", or have achieved it already.

[apriusfan]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fish @ Oct 27 2007, 11:39 AM) [snapback]531252[/snapback]</div>

What do these people think? They're in business for the long haul? Amateurs!

I was most fortunate to have been forced to study under the E. Deming approach toward business during my gainful employment era. Toyota actually reeks of the Deming ideology, and because of applying this approach to their business & ongoing product refinements, is a testimonial to their customer satisfaction achievements. Maybe GM, Chrysler, Ford are drifting toward being the "amateurs", or have achieved it already.
[/b]

Another way for Toyota to stay relevant (especially if the IP problems are real), is too put price pressure on the other mfrs. If GM is eating $3,000 on the cost to produce the Volt and Toyota can drop the price of the Prius with NiMh batteries so that the effective cost to GM on the Volt is say $4,000 (while Toyota could conceivably break-even), Toyota will have turned the tables on GM yet again. A 33% revenue shortfall for GM will kill a vehicle line. If Toyota can get the 3rd Gen Prius on the showroom floors in 2009 and GM hits production snags for the Volt, GM is already behind the 8-ball.

[usbseawolf2000]

Okamoto conceded that diesel engines were inherently better suited for saving fuel over long-distance cruising than hybrids, which capture energy lost during stop-and-start city driving. But he stressed that Toyota's future hybrids would be just as good -- if not better -- than today's diesels on the highway.[/b]

Interesting. I thought Prius can get as good MPG as Diesel of similar size on the highway already. Diesel fuel has 15% more energy than gasoline. Does that mean, the next Prius gasoline engine will be at least 15% more efficient? I really hope Toyota come out with a HCCI gas engine. This way, we won't have to change spark plugs every 100k miles.

Either that or, the next Prius will use a diesel engine? hmmm...

[brighamwj]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(usbseawolf2000 @ Oct 27 2007, 03:58 PM) [snapback]531283[/snapback]</div>

Interesting. I thought Prius can get as good MPG as Diesel of similar size on the highway already. Diesel fuel has 15% more energy than gasoline. Does that mean, the next Prius gasoline engine will be at least 15% more efficient? I really hope Toyota come out with a HCCI gas engine. This way, we won't have to change spark plugs every 100k miles.

Either that or, the next Prius will use a diesel engine? hmmm...
[/b]

What are the reasons impeding the development of a hybrid/diesel vehicle?

[jk450]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fish @ Oct 27 2007, 02:39 PM) [snapback]531252[/snapback]</div>

Imagine a corporation having the goal to half the cost of a product (twice) without being 'forced' to!

Indeed, truly a remarkable goal. For a company, an auto manufactures yet, to even suggest such a thought is inconceivable. Toyota is in my opinion, the "holy grail" of manufacturing and business approaches. Could this be the reason for their success?
[/b]

Toyota is not trying to cut the price of the product in half. They are trying to cut their internal cost, and the total size, of the hybrid system components in half. This is actually pretty old news; I'm not sure why they are repeating it now. The next-gen inverter, seen on the Camry hybrid and some Lexus products, is already much more compact than the Gen II inverter.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(brighamwj @ Oct 27 2007, 04:40 PM) [snapback]531290[/snapback]</div>

What are the reasons impeding the development of a hybrid/diesel vehicle?
[/b]

Cost.

[darelldd]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(brighamwj @ Oct 27 2007, 01:40 PM) [snapback]531290[/snapback]</div>

What are the reasons impeding the development of a hybrid/diesel vehicle?
[/b]

Americans just never embraced diesel. And Americans are the biggest market.

[donee]

Hi All,

This does sound like Toyota is feeling Diesel presure in Europe. By halving the Hybrid System cost the car would cost similar to a Diesel car.

Which is a TQM (Total Quality Management) approach, I guess, unfortunatly. Give the customer what they think they want. And the "they" being considered are the people that are not considering the Prius now.

There is problem in that halving the cost, the next Generation Prius might loose performance in FE, accelleration and/or reliability. Such a requirement from management might make an impossible demand on engineering. One thing I would be concerned about is battery size. A smaller MG2 would be another avenue, with a bigger engine. I am not sure I like these alternatives. The Prius battery is just big enough now, and making it smaller would make it very difficult to achieve high operating fuel economy, no matter what the EPA or Japan 10-? test says. Because these tests do not test hills. And the MG2 torque now makes the car superior in my view.

While I think it was readily doable to half cost between the first gen and second gen. More sophisticated techniques are much more readily learned from actually having cars to drive around and test. There is also economy of scale gained, and much more experience in manufacturing the specific part styles that go along with a new concept. These were the improvements to be expeced between a first and second generation. But they are now done.

But will there be as much improvement possible between the second and third generation ? This is questionable.

[ServoScanMan]

The way I read this is, Toyota is going to reduce the size of the hybrid system and keep the same battery configuration as the GenII Prius. With the advances in electronics, this is very doable.