"(Hybrids) are scary for a blind person"

[JackDodge]

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic...METRO/711120379

So much for that apocryphal notion that blind people develop their other senses more acutely than people who can see. Perhaps they can fit hybrids with something that will emit that Jetsons car sound. That would be cool. But the National Federation of the Blind is actually pushing for minimum sound levels

"The popularity of hybrids is growing, with 254,545 sold nationwide last year, according to Southfield-based R.L. Polk & Co. Through July, 3,576 hybrids were registered in Michigan, compared with 2,396 registered during the same period in 2006, the firm reported."

[hobbit]

There are many very quiet conventionally-engined cars, especially
when they're backing up and the engine is at the trailing end of
the vehicle.
.
_H*

[Ichabod]

Hmm... is "bollocks" the right word to describe that? Clearly some careful journalism going on there with quotes like:

The danger of hybrids running in silent battery mode has become so pervasive[/b]

And what about this:

Buffum, who has very limited sight, was almost hit by a hybrid once while crossing the street in his native Grinnell, Iowa, because he couldn't hear it.[/b]

If he couldn't see it or hear it, how did he know it almost hit him? If, by virtue of his "limited sight" he made out a vehicle passing near him, how does he know it was a hybrid, and not just another quiet car... at low speed, lots of cars are pretty quiet, especially in comparison to ambient street noise.

Seriously though, maybe instead of talking about a minimum noise level, everyone should be asking for a MAXIMUM noise level in all other vehicles. That way the ambient noise level on the average street goes down, and just the sound of the tires on pavement could be heard from far enough away. Blind people would be safe crossing the street, and quality of life would improve for the rest of us.

[qbee42]

Hybrids, as well as other quiet conventional cars, are only quiet when moving at low speed. At higher speeds, tire noise on the road surface becomes the major factor. A blind person is going to have a hard time with any quiet car, regardless of the technology, but at low speeds the driver should easily avoid any blind pedestrians. This whole issue is a tempest in a teapot.

Tom

[I want my PHEV]

Here's a thought. Drivers could look out for pedestrians and try not to hit them, especially the blind, children, elderly and ipod users. Not to mention everyone else. Especially at night.

[Stev0]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ichabod @ Nov 12 2007, 11:04 AM) [snapback]538403[/snapback]</div>

If he couldn't see it or hear it, how did he know it almost hit him? If, by virtue of his "limited sight" he made out a vehicle passing near him, how does he know it was a hybrid, and not just another quiet car... at low speed, lots of cars are pretty quiet, especially in comparison to ambient street noise.

[/b]

When the very first generation of Hybrids came out, I know a blind woman who was almost hit by an Insight. She listened for traffic like she was supposed to, didn't hear anything, stepped off the curb, and Screeeech!

The guy stopped to make sure she was OK, and explained what a hybrid was. She is no fan of hybrids.

[Ichabod]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Stev0 @ Nov 12 2007, 03:24 PM) [snapback]538524[/snapback]</div>

When the very first generation of Hybrids came out, I know a blind woman who was almost hit by an Insight. She listened for traffic like she was supposed to, didn't hear anything, stepped off the curb, and Screeeech!

The guy stopped to make sure she was OK, and explained what a hybrid was. She is no fan of hybrids.
[/b]

That blind woman is an idiot if she hates hybrids for that reason.

She should hate the driver who should have been paying enough attention to stop for someone who was about to cross the street. It IS illegal to do anything but stop for a pedestrian in most places. Whether I'm driving a Prius or a "noisier" car, I always tend to keep my attention on my surroundings enough to know when someone is about to cross the street. I know some people would speed up in order to pass before said pedestrian set foot in the cross-walk, but the safe, smart, and legal thing to do is slow down, stop and let them cross.

Blind people, at least the ones I know and the ones I have seen crossing streets, take extra caution and extra time in crossing. That should leave attentive drivers more than enough time to assess the situation and avoid any risk.

All of that having been said, as a pedestrian and as a cyclist I always assume that drivers can't/don't/won't see me, and I take extra caution myself. Even if I know I'm right, I'd rather yield my right than be run over (and I've still been run over a few more times than I'd like! One time it even involved a vehicle I didn't hear coming! It wasn't a hybrid though ).

In short, everyone needs to slow down, and be careful.

[hyo silver]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ichabod @ 2007 11 12 13:32) [snapback]538577[/snapback]</div>

...as a pedestrian and as a cyclist I always assume that drivers can't/don't/won't see me, and I take extra caution myself. Even if I know I'm right, I'd rather yield my right than be run over (and I've still been run over a few more times than I'd like! ).
[/b]

I hear you. I call it 'right of weight'.

I understand cyclists need a horn, and hikers need a 'bear bell', but no way am I walking around town with a 'minimum noise generator' dangling off my left earlobe.

[donee]

Hi All,

I am not exactly sure how the blind know that every car that coasts by in fuel cut mode is a Hybrid? Many cars do this as soon as one lifts his foot off the accellerator. All cars will do this soon. So no more "thousands of explosions" to be heard from any car, hybrid or not. By the way, present cars do not explode fuel at all. Its a controlled burn, with very little impact noise.

With regards to backing up, the Prius brakes make a clunk when the hydraulics kick in. Because, the car has no reverse gear or idling engine, one needs to push on the accellerator when reverse is selected to get the car to move. As soon as one touches the brake pedal - clunk due to the strong hydraulic system. In a traditional car, you back up with your foot on the brake. So, the brakes are silently rubbing, and pushing them harder makes no more noise.

Minimum noise standards are worthless. Because something is always louder and can cover up the noise. I have pointed this out this hazard near O'hare airport with overhead aircraft and 18 wheeler truck that cannot be heard 10 yards away, at 30 mph. Nothing will save a blind person in that situation, or an inattentive sighted person either (almost happened to me).

In one of the many other threads on this issue there was discussion of a technological fix. My proposal was a fan starter coded emtter to be worn by blind people. It would start the cooling fans on cars within range when the blind person pointed it and pushed the button. It could also light up a dashboard indicator at the same time. This proposal gets around the something is always louder, as the blind person would not attempt to trust their ears if something louder than a cooling fan was present. The change in audio that is synchronised to the pushing of the button tells the blind person that a vehicle is in range for sure. And of course it allerts the driver to the desire of the blind pedestrian to cross a street somewhere nearby.

[Stev0]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ichabod @ Nov 12 2007, 04:32 PM) [snapback]538577[/snapback]</div>

All of that having been said, as a pedestrian and as a cyclist I always assume that drivers can't/don't/won't see me, and I take extra caution myself. Even if I know I'm right, I'd rather yield my right than be run over (and I've still been run over a few more times than I'd like! One time it even involved a vehicle I didn't hear coming! It wasn't a hybrid though ).
[/b]

And if you have no idea if a car is coming or not, how are you supposed to "yield your right"?