Video: Sneak Peek At the Chevrolet Volt Production Model

[bruceha_2000]

Originally Posted by cnschult

toyota officials keep saying they have to stick with nickel cause the lithium isn't ready for auto applications yet, at least not up to their high standards. But that isn't stopping people from doing their own conversions at specialty shops.

Yeah, but your family doesn't get to sue the specialty shop for many millions of dollars if your Li-Ion converted vehicle fries and kills you. I think Toyota is being reasonable in their caution. It isn't like they said Li-Ion won't EVER work, just not stable enough right now for mass production vehicles.

[hill]

Originally Posted by bruceha_2000

Probably ran them over with a Hummer.

This is a little scary:
Sort of like water cooled computers of the 60's and 70's? Extra size, weight and power consumption associated with that. And they are going to get that power from .... maybe the batteries? I wonder if they aren't trying to be too slick. Might be better to use the 'range extending power source' to warm/cool the passenger and battery compartments when necessary. After all, heating and cooling the people is one of the big 'range killing' hurdles in electric vehicles. If it is too hot/cold for the batteries, the people are uncomfortable as well. Maybe they could design in a 'I'm only going to the store' user selection and the car's computers can decide not to use the 'REPS' if the people and battery compartments need heat/cool.

OMG, NOOO ! ! ! I hope corporate GM doesn't see your idea. Add this to the design and it'll be another 5 years.

[apriusfan]

Originally Posted by Tideland Prius

...and what happened to the EV1 engineers?

The EV-1 engineers were laid off and went to work at Toyota. The current Volt engineers were previously working on the Oldsmobile platform, and had to re-learn everything that the EV-1 engineers learned. Why do you think that GM is pushing out the production date for the Volt? Because it is not ready for prime time.

[malorn]

Originally Posted by apriusfan

The EV-1 engineers were laid off and went to work at Toyota. The current Volt engineers were previously working on the Oldsmobile platform, and had to re-learn everything that the EV-1 engineers learned. Why do you think that GM is pushing out the production date for the Volt? Because it is not ready for prime time.

Please stop with the garbage.

[darelldd]

Originally Posted by malorn

Please stop with the garbage.

While I agree with your sentiment, please hold up a mirror every now and again.

[darelldd]

Originally Posted by bruceha_2000

Thus, at its 'least efficient' distance, the Volt is minimally a 100% improvement over any current GM mid-size car. So, why, if the Volt concept is valid, can't GM EASILY exceed the 2020 CAFE numbers and years earlier?? They should fire the lawyers and hire more Volt engineers.

This was a point brought up by many when the Volt was first introduced. GM execs have said that when in gas generator mode, the thing will get 50mpg on the freeway. Hell, if they can do that with an ICE as a generator (with associated losses) then why don't they just put a 50mpg gas car on the road today!? If it can run along indefinitely at 50mpg, then the battery is doing nothing but being a small buffer, and a way to throw out some efficiency. Forget the 40 miles of EV range for now. Just put the 50mpg car on the road.

[Earthling]

Originally Posted by patsparks

What you saw 6 months ago was a concept car not the production shape. Did you hear him talk about changes to the concept, higher roof blunt front? That is the difference. You see a concept is a marketing tool not a car, they are working on a car now.

The concept car was only that, a concept, a hypothetical car.

GM's been backed into a corner, and now has to come up with a real car. The changed shape is a good sign that GM actually will be building a real Volt, and not just showing off a pretend one.

Harry

[FL_Prius_Driver]

Originally Posted by Tideland Prius

Where did they get the current engineers and what happened to the EV1 engineers?

They were in the EV1's when they were crushed. (Spiritually, if not physically.)

[nerfer]

Originally Posted by bruceha_2000

Yeah, but your family doesn't get to sue the specialty shop for many millions of dollars if your Li-Ion converted vehicle fries and kills you. I think Toyota is being reasonable in their caution. It isn't like they said Li-Ion won't EVER work, just not stable enough right now for mass production vehicles.

There are many types of lithium-based batteries with a slightly different chemistry that won't catch fire or explode - like those made by A123 or Valence. For some reason Tesla didn't use one of these types and have to separate and protect their batteries. And Toyota seems pretty committed to using only whatever type of battery they have developed in-house (or with the battery company they partly own, which one is that again?). I don't know if that uses a safe lithium chemistry or not, if not it might explain their delays. But safe lithium batteries exist, if manufacturers want to use them.

The conspiracy theory on using NiMH for PHEVs is that Cobasys owns the patent on NiMH batteries, and it's half-owned by the oil company Chevron, so they be trying to discourage PHEVs and pure EVs (by whatever means you may imagine an oil company using) even if their subsidiary doesn't grow as fast as it could. Again, that's a conspiracy theory, I have no proof or smoking gun.

Here's something I stumbled upon while googling Cobasys:
Super Soaker Inventor Cuts Solar Power Costs - Johnson Thermoelectric Energy Conversion System - Heat Engine - Popular Mechanics
A new method of using heat, such as solar heat, to produce electricity that could be 60% efficient (silicon PV cells are about 18-22% efficient) if it works out. Could be huge. But this may belong in a different thread.

[darelldd]

Originally Posted by nerfer

The conspiracy theory on using NiMH for PHEVs is that Cobasys owns the patent on NiMH batteries, and it's half-owned by the oil company Chevron, so they be trying to discourage PHEVs and pure EVs (by whatever means you may imagine an oil company using) even if their subsidiary doesn't grow as fast as it could. Again, that's a conspiracy theory, I have no proof or smoking gun.

To the extent that the NiMH large-format patent holders will NOT allow the battery to be used as the primary propulsion in a car - this is no theory. That's the way it is. There is some conjection on just WHY they put these limits on, but the fact remains that the batteries cannot be used to propel a car like they've done in the past (like the car that is parked in my garage).