Gm's Volt: Made In China?

[malorn]

Originally Posted by jayman

I really can’t understand why you’re whining so much. You claim to have a lot of money, so whatever happens, you’ll be laughing all the way to the bank. You have the ability to move assets around, to have access to *very* favorable tax laws the average working person can’t even imagine

I incorporated around 26 years ago and it remains the single best financial decision I have ever made. Given my income, my tax burden is so tiny it’s embarrassing. So unless you had Old Family money and managed to piss away every last cent, I just can’t see how any financial meltdown affecting the US or Canada could possibly affect your family

Even talk of a budget surplus in the US or Canada was mostly hot air. It was courtesy of refinancing the enormous public debt held by both countries. Much like a homeowner stuck with a huge mortgage at 18% who refi down to 6%, suddenly they have this magic budget surplus every month. Despite the fact the total debt remains. In the case of Canada or the US, guess who primarily helped refi the debt? Not Japan

I thought you were supposed to get involved in politics? What happened? Or did you find out that the Democrats and even your precious Republicans were both responsible for screwing everybody in North America. Unless you run as an Independent, nobody from the DNC or RNC will want to hear any talk of trade imbalance or – god help you – a balanced budget

That said, I’m not in any way trying to discredit you or discourage you. It’s just that if you truly are independently wealthy, why would you even give one rats a** what happens to the economy. It can’t possibly affect you

Hello Jayman, I am just sickened by the economic and fiscal mess this country is in. It seems to be getting worse by the day, week, and month with no real hope on the horizon. I am continually amazed by how little people know about what is really happening right under their noses. I guess as long as American Idol is in season and they have cash for Mcdonalds and Wal-Mart all is fine.

On a personal note(I think we discussed this once a while ago) I have been preparing for a melt-down since 9/11(diversified and liquid). My ranting and raving is not about my situation as much is it is just about right and wrong. This country is pissing its future down its leg economically, and I really do worry what will be left or my kids and their kids.

As for politics, the time is not right yet. I am a conservative in many ways but many of my stands on various policies do not fit the Republican mold(think george bush and wearing a bible on my sleeve). I think the US will probably make it out of this recession to an extent but the next down-turn will be a game changer., that will be the time. I do have a very "loose" campaign team assembled and will run for congress when the time is right. At this point I will probably run as an independent. My wife is terrified of the whole thing but I have convinced here it is the right thing to do.

[C.RICKEY HIROSE]

Originally Posted by malorn

The facts say otherwise, in 2006 the Japanese market was 5,739,506 units. The number of importswas 280,995 units or 4.8%. In the U.S the import share was 46.2%. If the imports were limited to the same share as the imports enjoy in Japan the imports would have sold 6,737.025 fewer vehicles in the US in 2006.
You are right the industry was not created overnight in the US, because it would have never been allowed.
America has the greater windfall? How do you add that up? A 1.9 trillion trade deficit over the last 22 years is the greater windfall? Are you saying the US is better off financially ove the last 25 years because of the trade "partnership" with Japan?
As for the military purchases, do you think that has covered just the cost of having hundreds of thousands of troops stationed there over the last 62 years? Do you know there are still more than 50,000 US troops on Japanese soil?

malorn, you only state what you want to state. Remember, when Japan surrendered to the US after WW II, the pact was, Japan to not need to arm itself again, The Big Daddy, America said, we will station here and defend your country for free against the Red commy threat.

However, Japan pays 1/2 of Americas army cost of doing business in Japan. You don't mention that do you. 50.000 troops in Japan is 'cause benefit to America.

Why don't you get back in the roght track and discuss why Japan can not help sell American vehicles there? 'Cause GM and others do not make vehicles taylored to that country.

[C.RICKEY HIROSE]

Originally Posted by malorn

Hello Jayman, I am just sickened by the economic and fiscal mess this country is in. It seems to be getting worse by the day, week, and month with no real hope on the horizon. I am continually amazed by how little people know about what is really happening right under their noses. I guess as long as American Idol is in season and they have cash for Mcdonalds and Wal-Mart all is fine.

On a personal note(I think we discussed this once a while ago) I have been preparing for a melt-down since 9/11(diversified and liquid). My ranting and raving is not about my situation as much is it is just about right and wrong. This country is pissing its future down its leg economically, and I really do worry what will be left or my kids and their kids.

As for politics, the time is not right yet. I am a conservative in many ways but many of my stands on various policies do not fit the Republican mold(think george bush and wearing a bible on my sleeve). I think the US will probably make it out of this recession to an extent but the next down-turn will be a game changer., that will be the time. I do have a very "loose" campaign team assembled and will run for congress when the time is right. At this point I will probably run as an independent. My wife is terrified of the whole thing but I have convinced here it is the right thing to do.

malorn, go and post yourself as candidate to become Americas leading politician, or better yet, how about Next President ?if everything goes your way, America will have nothing but trade-surplus, thus budget surplus....and happy, wealthy ever after..

You sound as if were student not putting enough attention to his school grade earning effort but complains that you aren't gettin' any good grades..

[jayman]

Originally Posted by malorn

I am just sickened by the economic and fiscal mess this country is in. It seems to be getting worse by the day, week, and month with no real hope on the horizon.

Me too. It's a truly enormous s*** sandwich. However, I've been around long enough to realize it won't do any good for me personally to get involved. Read on

Originally Posted by malorn

I am continually amazed by how little people know about what is really happening right under their noses. I guess as long as American Idol is in season and they have cash for Mcdonalds and Wal-Mart all is fine.

Look, I'm sure you mean well. But you are going to have to understand that problem is ON PURPOSE. It is by design the sheeple are like that. We have had several generations now of this bulls*** "feel good don't worry about it" attitude that it is impossible to recover from the coming crash.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not running around like a wealthy person trying to screw people every chance I get. But I look after myself. That means:

1. Zero debt
2. Credit cards paid off in full every month
3. Saving as much as possible

I don't have a plasma widescreen tv, actually very few gadgets. I try to lead a simple life. I do have a BlackBerry - or "crackberry" as I call them - but that was provided by my client. No way I'd even own a cell phone if I couldn't write it off every month

Originally Posted by malorn

I have been preparing for a melt-down since 9/11(diversified and liquid). My ranting and raving is not about my situation as much is it is just about right and wrong. This country is pissing its future down its leg economically, and I really do worry what will be left or my kids and their kids.

My folks have been preparing that way since they first married. It served them very well over the years. I didn't change anything post-9/11 because my house - so to speak - was already in order

I completely agree with your comments regarding the future of the US, and that also applies to Canada. That said, again I have to reiterate this point, it is ON PURPOSE and by design!

Originally Posted by malorn

I am a conservative in many ways but many of my stands on various policies do not fit the Republican mold(think george bush and wearing a bible on my sleeve).

There is a huge difference between being a Fiscal Conservative, and the current incarnation of the Republican Party. Honestly, I can't even tell where the Democrat ends and the Republican begins, or even vice versa. Reminds me of a bunch of frat boys completely s***faced, staggering down the street, trying to remember where the dorm is

Originally Posted by malorn

I think the US will probably make it out of this recession to an extent but the next down-turn will be a game changer., that will be the time.

I believe you are overly optimistic. I hope you have a fallback position, preferably outside the country. Something as self sufficient as possible

Originally Posted by malorn

I do have a very "loose" campaign team assembled and will run for congress when the time is right. At this point I will probably run as an independent. My wife is terrified of the whole thing but I have convinced here it is the right thing to do.

Again, I'm sure you mean well. That said, your wife has good reason to be terrified. A college buddy tried to run for a local office in the early 1990's. Just that little adventure broke his spirit, the entire process is, well, sinister.

Wishing you well

[hill]

Originally Posted by malorn

Hello Jayman, I am just sickened by the economic and fiscal mess this country is in. It seems to be getting worse by the day, week, and month with no real hope on the horizon.

While we're off topic with "woe is poor GM ... woe is poor deficit", were you also sickened with GM while they urinated down their own leg, a big lead with EV's ?? Maybe you were sickened when the Fed's, while over the last 20 years they gave GM & others, billions of dollars, through the US Advanced Battery Consortium and the Partnership for a New Generation of Vehicles (aimed at high-efficiency vehicles,) without ANY EV results? GM lost its big lead to Toyota because it continues to push HumVee type land boats, while it smothered the EV1 in the cradle.

The California Air Resources Board mandated zero-emission EV's by all OEMs selling in that state by 1998. GM and others weakly promoted them to only 3 states and offered them only for closed-end, three-year lease.
All the while GM and company spent 100's of millions suing in Federal court to evade the mandate until CARB buckled, with a Memorandum of Understanding that left GM & others to determine EV market demand. An independent EV market study released in 2000 (based on respected auto-industry market-study firm Dohring's data) projected EV sales passing 200,000 annually in five years.

But EV's don't break down like ICE vehicles, and GM gets over 1/2 their profit from fixing their land boats. Now it's time to pay the piper. You can couch GM's woes as "deficit beware" all you want. Peak oil looms, and GM et al now have to pay the piper. Bring on the EV's GM or China (or their joint venture for all we care) because after peak oil gets worse, it becomes a moot point. No one will be able to afford to ship stuff accross the world anyway, much less be able to afford the energy costs for manufacturing.

[C.RICKEY HIROSE]

Originally Posted by hill

While we're off topic with "woe is poor GM ... woe is poor deficit", were you also sickened with GM while they urinated down their own leg, a big lead with EV's ?? Maybe you were sickened when the Fed's, while over the last 20 years they gave GM & others, billions of dollars, through the US Advanced Battery Consortium and the Partnership for a New Generation of Vehicles (aimed at high-efficiency vehicles,) without ANY EV results? GM lost its big lead to Toyota because it continues to push HumVee type land boats, while it smothered the EV1 in the cradle.

> hill, Also, remember the 90's US Govrnmnt subsidy for GM, Ford, and Chrysler on the "Super car Project" they got our tax money to the tune of $1 B ?
Toyota and Honda wanted to participate in the research and possible creation of the highest fuel mileage vehicle, at their own expense.

But no, the big three baulked at the idea to share the infos with foreign manufacturers. This rejection prompted Toyota and to least Honda to gear up for the fearsome new technology vehicles soon to become reality from the Big Three...

The answer and product that cake out to this terrible,terrible threat from the never materialised "Threes" are the THS I and II plus the Honda IMA Hybrids...

Then what happened to the Big three ? $1 billion of our tax money spent and went up in smoke.

When Toyota launched the Gen I Prius to the US. GM was laughing and saying, wow look at Toyota ,they are selling this vehicles and losing money in every one they make... Bad Business...these Japanese...

Now, with record profit year after year,Toyota is having the last laugh alway to the bank... Good Business foresight.

The California Air Resources Board mandated zero-emission EV's by all OEMs selling in that state by 1998. GM and others weakly promoted them to only 3 states and offered them only for closed-end, three-year lease.
All the while GM and company spent 100's of millions suing in Federal court to evade the mandate until CARB buckled, with a Memorandum of Understanding that left GM & others to determine EV market demand. An independent EV market study released in 2000 (based on respected auto-industry market-study firm Dohring's data) projected EV sales passing 200,000 annually in five years.

But EV's don't break down like ICE vehicles, and GM gets over 1/2 their profit from fixing their land boats. Now it's time to pay the piper. You can couch GM's woes as "deficit beware" all you want. Peak oil looms, and GM et al now have to pay the piper. Bring on the EV's GM or China (or their joint venture for all we care) because after peak oil gets worse, it becomes a moot point. No one will be able to afford to ship stuff accross the world anyway, much less be able to afford the energy costs for manufacturing.

How much money did GM lost this time ?

[malorn]

Originally Posted by hill

While we're off topic with "woe is poor GM ... woe is poor deficit", were you also sickened with GM while they urinated down their own leg, a big lead with EV's ?? Maybe you were sickened when the Fed's, while over the last 20 years they gave GM & others, billions of dollars, through the US Advanced Battery Consortium and the Partnership for a New Generation of Vehicles (aimed at high-efficiency vehicles,) without ANY EV results? GM lost its big lead to Toyota because it continues to push HumVee type land boats, while it smothered the EV1 in the cradle.

The California Air Resources Board mandated zero-emission EV's by all OEMs selling in that state by 1998. GM and others weakly promoted them to only 3 states and offered them only for closed-end, three-year lease.
All the while GM and company spent 100's of millions suing in Federal court to evade the mandate until CARB buckled, with a Memorandum of Understanding that left GM & others to determine EV market demand. An independent EV market study released in 2000 (based on respected auto-industry market-study firm Dohring's data) projected EV sales passing 200,000 annually in five years.

But EV's don't break down like ICE vehicles, and GM gets over 1/2 their profit from fixing their land boats. Now it's time to pay the piper. You can couch GM's woes as "deficit beware" all you want. Peak oil looms, and GM et al now have to pay the piper. Bring on the EV's GM or China (or their joint venture for all we care) because after peak oil gets worse, it becomes a moot point. No one will be able to afford to ship stuff accross the world anyway, much less be able to afford the energy costs for manufacturing.

So are you telling me that GM, Ford and Chrysler have been suffering in the market because they are not building a Prius(6.9% of toyota's US sales total), or because of customer perceptions because they don't build a Prius?

[malorn]

Originally Posted by C.RICKEY HIROSE

malorn, you only state what you want to state. Remember, when Japan surrendered to the US after WW II, the pact was, Japan to not need to arm itself again, The Big Daddy, America said, we will station here and defend your country for free against the Red commy threat.

However, Japan pays 1/2 of Americas army cost of doing business in Japan. You don't mention that do you. 50.000 troops in Japan is 'cause benefit to America.

Why don't you get back in the roght track and discuss why Japan can not help sell American vehicles there? 'Cause GM and others do not make vehicles taylored to that country.

It is not very good practice to let a country re-arm right after you have just spent 4 years defeating it.
If you really believe the Japanese gave 100% to open their "home" market to US car companies I have the Brooklyn Bridge to sell to you to.

[Stev0]

For those who are new here, I should tell you how to play the GM Troll game. It goes like this:

GM Troll: Wah wah wah! The U.S. has a huge trade deficit with Japan! Big Gummint should do something about it to protect GM.

Sensible person 1: Maybe if GM built cars people wanted to buy that wouldn't be a problem.

GM Troll: Wah wah wah! GM is still the number one selling vehicle!

Sensible person 1: Then what's the problem?

Sensible person 2: The problem is GM is losing money like there's no tomorrow.

Sensible person 1: Then that's the fault of bad GM management, they'd still be losing money even if Japanese cars were illegal.

GM Troll: Wah wah wah! The U.S. has a huge trade deficit with Japan! Big Gummint should do something about it to protect GM.

Not that I'm thinking of anyone in specific in the above examples.

[malorn]

Originally Posted by Stev0

For those who are new here, I should tell you how to play the GM Troll game. It goes like this:

GM Troll: Wah wah wah! The U.S. has a huge trade deficit with Japan! Big Gummint should do something about it to protect GM.

Sensible person 1: Maybe if GM built cars people wanted to buy that wouldn't be a problem.

GM Troll: Wah wah wah! GM is still the number one selling vehicle!

Sensible person 1: Then what's the problem?

Sensible person 2: The problem is GM is losing money like there's no tomorrow.

Sensible person 1: Then that's the fault of bad GM management, they'd still be losing money even if Japanese cars were illegal.

GM Troll: Wah wah wah! The U.S. has a huge trade deficit with Japan! Big Gummint should do something about it to protect GM.

Not that I'm thinking of anyone in specific in the above examples.

I understand it is easy to sweep me under the rug, but what about all of the industires completely wiped out by the Japanese and now the Chinese. Do you think it is all just bad management? Remember our trade deficit is double our federal budget deficit. You seriously think it is just natural progression? Do you think maybe there is government support in the way of currency manipulation, tax incentives, transportation underwriting, protected markets at home, cost of goods supplementation and so on? You always hear about the cheaper cost of labor, what about the goods where the cost of labor is a non-factor? How about nails, or hammers, or even many toys? Do you think the labor factor is less than the cost of transport?