Forbes - Toyota to put plug-in Prius in production for 2010 model year

[Wiyosaya]

I have not been around in a while, so I don't know if anyone has posted this yet. I did search, and I could not find it. Anyway, this seems big news.

GM is sprinting to get the Volt to market by 2010 to claim first bragging rights in what it sees as a critical industry shift: the electrification of the automobile. But the year 2010 is significant for another reason. That's when rival Toyota (nyse: TM - news - people ) says it will put its first lithium-ion battery into a plug-in hybrid. (Batteries used in cars and power tools are usually called "lithium-ion," to distinguish them from the very different lithium batteries found in watches.)

Full article

Thanks to this site.

[resoh02]

After reading the full article it sounds like GM is coming out with new hybrids, hope they get better mileage than the 2 stupid models they introduced. Hybrids with non impressive mileage

[DeadPhish]

GM's Volt if they can get the Li-ion battery issue under control is a huge advancement....for some people. My wife for example would never have to buy gas again!! For me the proposed savings would be 'noticeable' but here I'd have to turn the tables and see if the gas savings were 'worth the extra price' to give up my Prius. Now there's a switch.

My daily commute is 150 miles. If 40 miles were 'gas free' ... but the vehicle cost $35000 ... I'd probably opt for a less expensive Gen 3 Prius that didn't have the PHEV option. I woldn't pay Toyota any extra for a PlugIn option either. I'd stay with the 'traditional' Prius, just updated.

Outside of the technical barriers to this new trend the makers have to assess just how many buyers there will be. If you live in midtown Manhattan on the 57th floor and park your current vehicle three blocks away on the street how useful is a PlugIn option?

[Bill Merchant]

Originally Posted by DeadPhish

If you live in midtown Manhattan on the 57th floor and park your current vehicle three blocks away on the street how useful is a PlugIn option?

If you live in midtown Manhattan on the 57th floor you don't really need any car on a regular basis. However, if you live in Connecticut and drive into the city, a PHEV might be very useful. And if you don't live downtown in the top five SMSAs, which most people don't, an EV or PHEV makes LOTS of sense.

[daniel]

Originally Posted by DeadPhish

GM's Volt if they can get the Li-ion battery issue under control is a huge advancement....for some people. My wife for example would never have to buy gas again!! ...

I agree that the Volt concept is much better than modifying the Prius full hybrid to plug-in. However, as John pointed out in another thread, you'd still have to buy some gas for it because a gas engine must be run from time to time to keep everything lubricated, and gasoline goes stale so the tank has to be emptied (probably by running the engine, sonce the engine needs to be run) and re-filled from time to time.

In your case, the better solution is for your wife to drive a pure EV, and you keep your Prius. The Prius is there on the rare occasions when your wife needs to drive farther than the EV will go, and for whenever you take long trips together. If your wife's daily drive is within EV range, then a PHEV is a poor fit, assuming an EV is available.

[hill]

Originally Posted by resoh02

After reading the full article it sounds like GM is coming out with new hybrids, hope they get better mileage than the 2 stupid models they introduced. Hybrids with non impressive mileage

I wonder when GM will stop stamping hybrid on their cars (and running tons of 'green' ads about it) simply because the motor shuts off at red lights. AND when will they plant a true HSD system in a nice lightweight mid sized car, that's on par w/ the Prius.

[DeadPhish]

Originally Posted by hill

I wonder when GM will stop stamping hybrid on their cars (and running tons of 'green' ads about it) simply because the motor shuts off at red lights. AND when will they plant a true HSD system in a nice lightweight mid sized car, that's on par w/ the Prius.

In answer to your question , a couple of others in return...
'What if the 4 main hybrid makers have decided NOT to compete against each other until the entire NA buying public is on board as regards hybrid technology?'
'What if GM is being allowed an open field to develop hybrid technology for trucks/SUVs because it's strength in the market is in heavy vehicles?'
'Whatever happened to the Tundra hybrid?'
'Did Toyota sell it's technology to GM quietly or did Toyota notice that GM's 2-Mode system was better than anything Toyota had on paper so it went back to the labs?'

[hill]

I don't know ... with oil production past its peak, and gas ever spiraling upward, the gunboat Caddie SUV hybrid idea will likely become a kind of white elephant. But GM doesn't understand that, it seems. Likely, our culture will no longer buy into the idea we need 1,000's of lbs of extra dead weight for mom to simply go down & buy groceries. Maybe not at the current $3.30 national average, but certainly by $5 / gallon ... and at the current rate of fuel cost increases, that won't be too far off, unfortunately. Like Europe & Asia, most of our autos will have to downsize out of necessity, and that's not such a bid deal IMO.

Bring on the lighter PHEV's

[C.RICKEY HIROSE]

Originally Posted by hill

I don't know ... with oil production past its peak, and gas ever spiraling upward, the gunboat Caddie SUV hybrid idea will likely become a kind of white elephant. But GM doesn't understand that, it seems. Likely, our culture will no longer buy into the idea we need 1,000's of lbs of extra dead weight for mom to simply go down & buy groceries. Maybe not at the current $3.30 national average, but certainly by $5 / gallon ... and at the current rate of fuel cost increases, that won't be too far off, unfortunately. Like Europe & Asia, most of our autos will have to downsize out of necessity, and that's not such a bid deal IMO.

Bring on the lighter PHEV's

hill-san, Agreed here, Japan's gas price has been around over $5 a gallon for many years so is Europe, thus other countries produces and digest fuel efficient vehicles. I have here, over _79_ new Sequoias in stock !

Customers comes in and look at them jealously but when they see the MPG figure on the stickers they all "sigh" and they says, I like the Big SUV but even Toyota can not produce the fuel efficient Big SUV..

Toyota bring on the fuel efficient behemoth that American housewifes love to drive.

[Leo]

Originally Posted by DeadPhish

My wife for example would never have to buy gas again!!

Beware of too much optimism. The quoted maximum mileage on batteries alone probably assumes no cabin heat or air conditioning, headlights and tail lights off, no windshield wipers or rear-window defroster, etc. Turn them all on at the same time and your electric-only distance would likely crumble.