2009 Prius BIGGER and FASTER (Yeah better mileage too)

[Tideland Prius]

Originally Posted by genalex

And, btw, it would be nice if a body redesign would focus on corner visibility. I have to squint thru the tiny peep hole on the front right to avoid clipping the curb on tight right turns.

you need a Nissan Presage with curb cameras mounted on the wing mirrors

[Tempus]

Originally Posted by john1701a

Looks like you forgot to consider the big picture...

Pushing Prius in that direction opens up the opportunity to create a smaller one too, a second model to address the market that deems MPG an even higher priority.

We like when they offer a choice.

.

I didn't forget anything.

The Prius is the Flagship.

If they want to make the Camry get 50 MPG by applying the improved tech, by all means go for it, but bloating the Prius absolutely sends the wrong signal at the wrong time. It would be a monumentally stupid move. I don't care what their plans are for 'growing the brand'. If they don't have the best mileage reasonably sized car possible be the first new "Prius" out of the box, they've squandered a huge reservoir of good-will and show that they really don't understand what they have.

But, I really don't doubt they can pull that lever and flush it. That's the way car companies think. The next model always has to be bigger and more powerful.

I have news for them if that's the case. Not Any More!

If gas prices continue up, and Toyota doesn't do the absolute best they can to radically improve mileage, they will have blown it big time.

I suspect it will go down in history as just as great of a blunder as the Gen2 Prius was a success.

[hampdenwireless]

Toyota has been up sizing most of its vehicles on each redesign. As we have discussed it has worked for them in the past but its starting not too. The Scion xB is a great example. The new one is bigger and faster but it gives up its mpg and price advantage. It has NOT been selling well.

I would love to have seen Toyota come out with a new version of the 1.5 with vvt and other improvements but 1.8 is not a huge engine. The total HP figure of 160hp on the other hand puts it at more power then my previous Mustang (v6 150hp)!! And of course it would be lighter too.

The hope is that Toyota makes a 1000cc Yaris 2 door sized Prius that does north of 75mpg new EPA test. They still have not topped the Insight and they easily could.

[DeadPhish]

Originally Posted by Tempus

I didn't forget anything.

The Prius is the Flagship.

If they want to make the Camry get 50 MPG by applying the improved tech, by all means go for it, but bloating the Prius absolutely sends the wrong signal at the wrong time. It would be a monumentally stupid move. I don't care what their plans are for 'growing the brand'. If they don't have the best mileage reasonably sized car possible be the first new "Prius" out of the box, they've squandered a huge reservoir of good-will and show that they really don't understand what they have.

But, I really don't doubt they can pull that lever and flush it. That's the way car companies think. The next model always has to be bigger and more powerful.

I have news for them if that's the case. Not Any More!

If gas prices continue up, and Toyota doesn't do the absolute best they can to radically improve mileage, they will have blown it big time.

I suspect it will go down in history as just as great of a blunder as the Gen2 Prius was a success.

I think that you missed his point. There likely will be several Prius'. The prime one will be a 5 door hatch that gets 55+ mpg EPA-world instead of the current 48 mpg EPA-world. There is also the probability that there will be a smaller Prius with a smaller engine and fuel economy in the 70 mpg range. Then probably a third or even a 4th with completely different configuations. That way everyone is happy.

This will attract a much much wider market for 'the Prius'. For example how many $18000 buyers now can opt for a Prius? None. They either must step up to $24000 for a package 2 Prius or go the Corolla route. With a smaller Prius getting 70-ish mpg in the $19000-$20000 range that attracts a whole 'nother segment of buyers.

How about the minivan client that would love to get 30+ mpg instead of 22 mpg like the Sienna, Odyssey, Caravans do? There is one already. It's the Estima hybrid in Japan. It's smaller than the gasser Sienna but it has a 2.4L+HSD option so the power plant fits nicely and it's already made in the States. Add this as the 3rd 'Prius' and now the potential market has opened up another 500,000 buyers or so.

One thing.... as good as Toyota's vehicles are.... its Marketing is even better. It is simply the best marketing vehicle maker in the world.

[DeadPhish]

Regarding vehicle capabilities there is another issue as well. I am certain, without facts admittedly, that all the vehicle makers - Toyota especially - hold back on the technical capabilities of their systems. They build them, see what they can do maxed out then ratchet them back several turns upon release.

This does two things. It gives a cushion for extreme instances and it allows them to show an 'advancement' on the next iteration without making any additional investments. There's a tertiary benefit if you will in that the users end up getting something better than expected. I always got 30-34 mpg on the highway in my 4c Camry's even though the rated values were 30 or 31 mpg.

[Genoz World]

hehehehehehe.......

it's all good. my prius II is already gonna be "claimed" by my wife.

i get the new one.......dont worry, we'll rotate the second time around!!

here's my new one

cheers!

[fan-atic]

I think deadphish got it right, but I'd like to add a few thoughts:
1. The 2008 Prius already has the same cabin size as the 2008 Malibu. Making it a little wider and a little faster just preempts any thought by GM that they can enter the market.
2. The Prius will be a three model brand name; that's old news. I think that the mileage leader will be a two passenger, pseudo-sporty model. It will use the same engine/HSD setup.
3. Part of my speech on the merits of HSD has been it's simplicity: not clutches, no belts, no transmission in the traditional sense. I think I'm going to be forced to ammend the speech on the next generation HSD. I think Toyota will go with the Lexus HSD setup to get more power (and less waste) from the electric motor. This means two clutches.

[efusco]

If the plans for the Prius include making it a PHEV with decent AE range (?20-40 miles) it makes sense to make it a little bigger to help accomodate the larger battery pack without significant sacrifice of passenger room or cargo space.

One of the BEST marketing tools for the Prius II was that it had better fuel economy, better acceleration, and was larger than the Prius I. I think this generation intends on developing on that trend...albeit to a little lesser degree. If the acceleration of the Prius III is equal to that of the average Mid-size on the market and yet it gets better FE than even the Prius II it'll market well to the masses. Do the worshipers of all things Prius need/want that...no. I'd much prefer keeping the current engine size, or even going a little smaller with more power coming from the battery pack for acceleration with an eye toward a 70mpg Prius...but it may be that Toyota's trying to put the entire concept of hybrids being slow or whimpy behind them for good.

[Tempus]

Originally Posted by DeadPhish

I think that you missed his point.

No, I didn't miss his point. I disagreed with it.

You agree that the first model released will be the "Prius" - Ie the flag bearer for the planned new model line.

Thus, it's the benchmark by which progress is judged.

If they only go from 48 to 55 MPG that's what people will see. The "Prius" mileage increased by less than 15% after 5 years.

When people ask what the "Prius" mileage is, that's the number that will be quoted.

It won't matter if they come out with a "Baby Prius" later. That will always be seen as the Eco-Box not the real world car.

IMO they should have pulled out all the stops to get the next flagship "Prius" at least over 60 MPG real world, and I bet they could have done that and more if they had kept the size and power comparable to the current one. Then they could come out with the Baby, Sport, and Avalon versions but people would still have in their head that the "Prius Mileage" is over 60.

The 2004 Prius was a category buster and has become Toyota's third best selling car. Toyota has a choice, they can continue to push the envelope or they can rest on the laurels. I see the specs cited here for the 09 as taking the business as usual approach, which is truely disappointing to me.

If they do, I think the Prius will basically lose it's halo. It may be a very good car, but it will be just another car. The sad part is it didn't have to be that way.

[patsparks]

I'd like a 1.8 litre engine if it allows a towing capacity of 400 kilograms (880lbs) otherwise a little more elbow room please.