2009 Prius BIGGER and FASTER (Yeah better mileage too)

[Godiva]

Prius-esque?

It better still have a hatchback or I may buy the last of the old model and just keep that forever.

[PrettyinPrius]

Hi, there, this is my first post, so please go easy on me (I am planning to go talk to the dealer today about buying a Prius. There will probably be one in my garage by the end of the week).

I realize that may Prius owners are happy with the performance of their Prius, but it’s definitely one of the things that has kept me from buying one. There is still part of me that is torn between getting a Prius and getting a new hybrid Camry. Ultimately I decided that because my husband will be driving the car 60 miles a day, that the mileage was more important that my desire for performance.

But if there was a Prius that had the current mileage and better performance, I would definitely buy that instead and be able to leave the reservations behind.

So of course then I start to think... well should I not buy this Prius now, if there is a new model coming out... But I really have to replace my husband's 2000 Cadillac STS this month, so I can't wait. And that's when it hit me...

I might be totally off base but it occurs to me that by making this next Prius different, Toyota might actually be preserving the resale value of the existing model I am about to buy.

What do you think? How will this new Prius affect the current Prius's resale value? Now and after it is actually available?

[efusco]

Originally Posted by PrettyinPrius

Hi, there, this is my first post, so please go easy on me (I am planning to go talk to the dealer today about buying a Prius. There will probably be one in my garage by the end of the week).

I realize that may Prius owners are happy with the performance of their Prius, but it’s definitely one of the things that has kept me from buying one. There is still part of me that is torn between getting a Prius and getting a new hybrid Camry. Ultimately I decided that because my husband will be driving the car 60 miles a day, that the mileage was more important that my desire for performance.

But if there was a Prius that had the current mileage and better performance, I would definitely buy that instead and be able to leave the reservations behind.

From the mouths of babes (no offense OP)...this is exactly what I said above and exactly what Toyota is doing by choosing a target market. Whether the additional performance is "Needed" or not is irrelevant...what matters is whether potential buyers Perceive the better performance as necessary or not.

So of course then I start to think... well should I not buy this Prius now, if there is a new model coming out... But I really have to replace my husband's 2000 Cadillac STS this month, so I can't wait. And that's when it hit me...

I might be totally off base but it occurs to me that by making this next Prius different, Toyota might actually be preserving the resale value of the existing model I am about to buy.

What do you think? How will this new Prius affect the current Prius's resale value? Now and after it is actually available?

I think resale value will drop by a couple thousand dollars, but nothing huge. It's still a good performing car with great MPG and there's going to be a growing market for high MPG vehicles by people who can't afford to buy a new car.

[SureValla]

it seems like the argument for this gen 3 prius is that it is part of a larger plan including other vehicles such as a mini van etc.

however no such plan has been announced, only hinted at and mildly at that. so without such extra vehicles your arguments are irrelevant making this new prius not a good idea.

Think of it in terms of how much improved the gen2 is over gen1.

gen3 does not seem like much of an improvement as gen1 to gen2 so in my mind that makes this proposed gen3 not worth manufacturing.

[miscrms]

I too wish the Prius was not heading in this direction, but business wise I can see the sense of it. Even without any other models, the new Prius will still be the most efficient vehicle on the market of any size. Therefore, they should retain pretty much all of the growing pool of Prius buyers. By making it a little bigger, a little faster and a little sportier looking they will help attract new buyers as well.

I would assume that the other new models will be pretty much ready to go, but from a business perspective Toyota has very little incentive to release them now. My guess is they will hold those cards until needed to fend off market entires by other manufacturers. They'll have the Lexus Prius to fend off BMW diesels or other high end hybrids, a small model to fend off Honda's next hybrid entry, a van in case GM or someone else decides to try that market space, and a PHEV version in case GM actually gets the Volt out. But in the mean time, with a healthy and often growing market share in pretty much all segments, why would they release any of these now (or even make announcements that tell their competitors that they are ready)? Lets not forget Toyota is a business, not a benevolent developer of green tech trying to save the planet.

Rob

[usbseawolf2000]

I thought Prius showcases the hybrid technology in a way that it can defies the conventional wisdom of the traditional powertrains.

Based on a figure from the Toyota's THSII (HSD) page, I edited it to show what to expect from the next generation. I think this picture is worth a thousand words.

[micheal]

Originally Posted by SureValla

Think of it in terms of how much improved the gen2 is over gen1.

gen3 does not seem like much of an improvement as gen1 to gen2 so in my mind that makes this proposed gen3 not worth manufacturing.

By what metric are people thinking that gen 3 is not enough of an improvement over gen 2? Looking at the jump from Gen 1 to Gen 2, it was 5 mpg (12%), while G2 to G3 is reported to be 7 mpg (15%). Size and power will both increase, as it did from G1 to G2.

So I don't get people saying it is not even worth making. 55mpg is still going to be significantly higher than any other car available. Who wouldn't like it to be 60 or 70 mpg? But to act like that is the standard that has to be met has no foundation when looking at the extent of changes in previous generations.

As efusco has said, many people still perceive the Prius as being slow and boring to drive. Things that Toyota can do to improve those things (within reason), while still improving fuel economy is a win-win. This way more people are attracted to the Prius that wouldn't have been otherwise and more gas is saved. Let's face it, the Prius was on the lower end of the segment when it came to speed and traditional methods of evaluating performance. I don't begrudge Toyota bringing Prius into the middle of the pack (the 4 cyl Camry has 158 hp). If Toyota was appearing to come out with the new Prius like the HAH of years past, then I think there would be a legitimate concern.

[MountainStone]

So the new Prius will be larger AND faster AND get better fuel mileage?

I can see why so many of you are angry.

[efusco]

Let's imagine you're the head of marketing and sales for Toyota....
GM's about to put out the Chevy Volt.

You want to not only compete, but to maintain the absolute control of the alternative energy/high fuel economy segment of the automobile market.

The Volt will be 4 seats, cost +/- $35,000, "require" you to plug it in, will take around 8-10 seconds to go 0-60, but has brand new EV only driving range that is unproven, but that will be very attractive to commuters.

So, you want to attract potential buyers away from the Volt to the Prius III....
I would:
1) have 5 seats and more cargo room
2) Hold cost under $25k
3) Have better acceleration
4) Use proven reliable technology
5) Keep MPG highly attractive until a PHEV competitor is available...at which point the price will be about the same as the Volt, but the car will still be bigger & faster and better proven.

While there will be tiny (relative to the entire car buying population) factions of us who would prefer a smaller car, with no change in acceleration and a dramatic improvement in FE WE are not representative of the larger car buying population.

I do hope that John is correct and that a "Prius Mini" or something will be put out that can push 80mpg and offers a smaller size, lower performance, nice EV range, etc. I think there will be a nice niche market for that. But family sedans are where it's at and that's the market they're aiming to win over.

[alam99]

I was at Kohls (the department store) the other day. They had a placard near the mall entrance, giving away a Prius. The strange thing was, the picture of the prius they had on the sign was a sedan, not the current hatchback model. Could it have been a picture of a generation I? Or of the new 2009 model? I didn't have a camera with me, if another member happens to pass by a Kohls, could they double-check that promotional placard?