2009 Prius BIGGER and FASTER (Yeah better mileage too)

[patsparks]

Originally Posted by scotttyb68

I have some bigger guys who work for me and they are amazed at how much roomier the '08 pruis is compared to how it looks from the outside. I don't really need more power, if I wanted a muscle car I would have bought one. But I would like to see the car use the batteries more at 45 mph or slower.

Why?

[priusuk2008]

There are some interesting posts here on the subject of bigger and faster and better economy and whether this is good or bad, but I would just like to chip in with another observation, gleaned from various forums on this site..

The single biggest consideration is the battery - The current NiMh battery is the glory taker for Prius; without it, all else fails. Its weaknesses are size, weight and cost and the earlier promising alternative of Lithium Ion batteries appeared to be the cavalry coming over the hill to save the day for Toyota, maintaining size, reducing weight and hence performance improvement, all with better fuel economy......

Fast forward today.... that battery pack is on hold, with safety and cost issues unresolved; alternative developments in battery technology I read about here were looking at batteries similar in performance to those used in hearing aids (albeit somewhat larger!) to steal a march on the Li-Io scene (and GM in particular).....

However, none of these are resolved and the motoring public/world expects a model revision after 5 years and competitors are developing vehicles, so what must Toyota do? Plan A (Li-Io) has been shelved and while Plan B (alternative batteries) is probably still in motion, something needs to be released as a model which shows progressive range development. Ergo, beef up the performance and range of the NiMh battery (make it bigger?), make the car wider to accommodate a larger battery pack, skim some Kgs somewhere on the car and boast better performance (mainly from the battery end over higher mph) and better economy because the battery is being used 10% more.....

Is it really that simple ?
I think the 2009 version is a watershed model and the real McCoy is only coming a year or two later, when vastly improved battery packs become available and 100mpg range becomes possible through plugging the car in at home, conserving gas.

Could be totally wrong, but this seems the more obvious reason for what Toyota are doing.

[egloryriver]

What's the big deal. I average 50.3 to 55 miles per gallon now. I want to see 100 miles per gallon. Also my Prius run about +/- 43 mph on electric. I think my Prius is a golden lemon.

[resoh02]

Originally Posted by grinthock

My hope (although I doubt it any time soon) is that the prius as we know it today, will become the Yaris of tommorow, and this new Prius is really more geared to the "Corolla" crowd.

Also try reading the article, they talk about exactly that.... Quote

"Toyota is also planning both bigger and smaller Prius-badged models as 'Prius' starts to become an eco brand all of its own. The tiny, two-cylinder, rear-engined 1/X concept from the 2007 Tokyo Show suggests what a future mini Prius could end up looking like."



But until the Hybrid's get cheaper (at least they are not in Canada) there's no appeal to people. I could drive a BMW 3 series, or a nice Infinti G35 for the same price as a loaded Prius here in Canada.


After owning a prius for only 3 weeks, I find it plenty fast for doing my day to day stuff (And this comes from a guy who used to race on the strip), it would be better if it had about twice the traction battery, and double the power electric motor, because I wouldn't have to try to hard to P+G to get steller fuel mileage -- and i'd have the extra umph of the electric when i need to put the power down.

Maybe you need to come to US to buy car, I paid 23000 for mine and got a 3150 rebate. You can get a GM, Ford or Chrysler for less than 23000, but not many and which one gets 47 to 50 mpg. Try 5.00 per gal, and figure what a GM auto traveling 12000 at 20 mpg and at 5.00 per gal compare it to the Prius at 48Mpg at 5.00. I just can't understand where you are coming from we need to reduce or need for foreign oil, they are holding us hostage. The Prius is a great car and really a great price.

[jeffreykb]

Originally Posted by SureValla

if you think the prius is only a car you dont belong on this website my friend

Sounds like a "Hot Rod" blog to me...where are the pictures of the beautiful models next to the Prius?

Every car company does this...looking for a wider demograpihc of buyers. As great as the Prius is...things can be "improved". "Improved" is a relative term. The introduction of the automatic transmission was considered an "improvement" over a manual transmission, but not to some drivers.

I like the idea of a "Prius brand" with every vehicle type...small, hatchback, sedan, mini-van, truck, crossover, etc. Heck in few years, Toyota could produce a new Classic Pruis again for all the folks that consider it more than just a car.

Not cracking on anyone...I've felt in the past that a car was more than just a car. As everyone knows, a life changing event with a car can cause it.

[daniel]

Guess I'll chime in here. I don't like driving a big car. I'd be delighted with a smaller Prius that has the same acceleration characteristics as my '04. But if the 2010 (I presume we're really talking about the 2010 even though the thread title says 2009) is larger and more powerful than my '04 I'll be very reluctant to trade.

My Prius is bigger than I need. I've only ever used all its space twice: Once when I drove up to Winnipeg from Fargo and picked up two passengers, and the three of us with tents and camping gear for 4 nights drove up to northern Saskatchewan, north of Saskatoon; and then when I moved from Fargo to Spokane and carried as much as I could with me of the stuff I'd need before the moving van arrived.

As for power, I can merge and pass on the freeway. As for speed, I can easily go the speed limit.

What more can anybody want from a car? Answer: Even better FE if they can manage it. And regardless of technology, a smaller car can have better FE than a bigger one.

Toyota already has a bigger hybrid that delivers power over FE: The Camry hybrid.

The only thing that could lure me into a bigger, more powerful Prius would be if it's a PHEV-40.

[clett]

Originally Posted by priusuk2008

Plan A (Li-Io) has been shelved and while Plan B (alternative batteries) is probably still in motion

The problem Toyota has is that they persevered for far too long in their R&D with a cobalt-oxide based lithium-ion battery, which has the unfortunate tendency of occasionally blowing up or catching fire.

In terms of Lithium battery safety and cycle life, companies like GM and BYD are miles ahead of Toyota right now because they are working with lithium-iron phosphate, which is a much safer, more robust and cheaper (ie superior) battery chemistry.

Toyota are scrabling to catch up with their rivals by switching to a LiFePO4 approach, but this will take time, so they are currently extending the use of the NiMH battery in the Prius.

When they do eventually make the leap from NiMH to lithium, expect a solid increase in fuel economy, as NiMH batteries can only give back out about 60-70% of the energy you originally put into them, while the modern lithium chemistries can manage about 98-99%. Toyota have suggested they will have lithium batteries in a hybrid by 2010.

[priusuk2008]

Originally Posted by clett

The problem Toyota has is that they persevered for far too long in their R&D with a cobalt-oxide based lithium-ion battery, which has the unfortunate tendency of occasionally blowing up or catching fire.

In terms of Lithium battery safety and cycle life, companies like GM and BYD are miles ahead of Toyota right now because they are working with lithium-iron phosphate, which is a much safer, more robust and cheaper (ie superior) battery chemistry.

Toyota are scrabling to catch up with their rivals by switching to a LiFePO4 approach, but this will take time, so they are currently extending the use of the NiMH battery in the Prius.

When they do eventually make the leap from NiMH to lithium, expect a solid increase in fuel economy, as NiMH batteries can only give back out about 60-70% of the energy you originally put into them, while the modern lithium chemistries can manage about 98-99%. Toyota have suggested they will have lithium batteries in a hybrid by 2010.

Thanks Clett, most informative and enlightening. You mentioned LiFePO4 approach, but are they also looking at Zinc Air do you know?

[ZC1]

2009 Prius BIGGER and FASTER (Yeah better mileage too)

I highly doubt it will be the 2009 model.

ZC1

[daniel]

Originally Posted by clett

Toyota have suggested they will have lithium batteries in a hybrid by 2010.

I take that to mean the 2011 model year, on car lots in the fall of 2010. I guess I can drive my 2004 Prius, for road trips, and my Zap Xebra, for daily in-town driving, for another 2 1/2 years.