Fuel Economy: Break Even Time for Hybrids

[penbed]

Why ask why?
If you want it,buy it!

[DeadPhish]

Originally Posted by a priori

I like your numbers, but I do not like the idea of considering a depreciating-value asset as an investment. In purely economic terms, I think you need to look at the total cost of ownership. There were pieces of this missing in the article, and the article's author acknowledged some of that in responding to messages on the blog.

On the investment end -- imaging how those folks feel who plopped down $50K + on Cadillac Escalades. If they had investment in mind, they may have figured those SUVs get more expensive each year so the owners could always trade it in soon with high resale value. Hmmm.

Yes agreed very much. For such a visible organization with very accurate information and tools Edmunds writers get this so very wrong all the time. Then others using Edmunds as the source parrot the faulty analysis. I am continually correcting them whenever they make a mess of the calculations.

First, there is no such thing as a payback period or breakeven period. As you noted autos are depreciating assets that just cost more and more the longer they are held. The only valid analysis is to estimate and accumulate the costs for an expected lifetime of ownership. 5 yrs? 10 yrs? 250,000 mi? Then total the expected costs and see which costs less.

Second, almost everybody makes the wrong comparo with the Prius. The other hybrid/non-hybrid comparo's are pretty easy, TCH to Camry, etc. What other Toyota is a 5 door 4c hatchback???? The Matrix!!!! that's the non-hybrid Prius. Neither the Corolla nor the Camry are the correct vehicles to use.

Third, in this article they assume that the cost of fuel will remain the same forever!! Huh???? The last 'analysis' they did based it on $2.85 per gallon. Well we know that they were wrong there. If an owner is a keeper for say 10 years what will be the cost of fuel in 2018???? Probably $8 per gallon. How can $3.61 be correct? Lazy and stupid.

Fourth, even though it's a key part of their website Edmunds doesn't ever factor in resale values. Up to 10-12 years the hybrids bring a premium at resale thereby reducing the original 'hybrid purchase premium'. Again more laziness.

Finally, they often forget to factor in local incentives such as in WV, CT and CO. OK I'll give on this one it's too specific.

[acdii]

I hate these "comparisons" articles. They don't look at the overall picture. As others mentioned, the Prius is one of a kind, you pay for it as if you would pay for any other car, there is no premium on it. The Camry Hybrid, when compared to no hybrid with the same feature and options doesn't have a "premium" either, depending on how good a deal you can get. The one I bought I got for a little over invoice, had I gone for a non hybrid, it would have been a V6 XLE, which would have cost more and used more fuel.

As far as savings go, when we purchased the Prius last year, we also started to car pool. Between the savings in the cost of Diesel, train fare, parking and gas, we saved well over the monthly cost of the car payment AND insurance. The one thing we didn't consider was the fact that with three kids, two in car seats, the Prius would soon be outgrown. We traded it in on a Hyundai Veracruz.(yes I did buy a Hyundai, and I love it!). What I didn't expect was how fast gas prices would shoot up and decided to get a Camry Hybrid for our daily driver, we can fit all three in the back, a tight squeeze for the teenager, but he still fits on those occasions when he happens to be at the grand parents house where our other two are being watched. My mother also lives with us, so when the whole family goes out, we now take the Veracruz, instead of driving two cars. We may no longer be saving as much in fuel costs as we did with the Prius, but we are still doubling he mileage we got with the Crown Vic, and Veracruz, nearly triple the mileage of the F350 Diesel. I Like the Camry so much more than I did the Prius, to me it was just a bit too small, but you sure cant beat the fantastic mileage it gets, and I was getting 48 in winter and 53 in summer, much better than what I see in all the reviews. Best part was I got back every penny I put into it, something that never happens with a car.

On the other side of the coin, there are hybrids out there which do have a premium, The Highlander, the GMC, the Escape and a few others, that make purchasing one more of a I got a Hybrid than anything else, since trying to make up the difference would take a lot of miles, putting it into the same class as buying a diesel pickup over a gas one, it takes a long time to make up that $4-6000 difference in fuel savings.

[debos]

i downgraded my truck and bought a prius. im paying the same i did for my truck minus anywere from 100-200 dollars a month in gas. its not a terrible amount of money, but im not looking to break even or even get ahead. i wish people would treat more as a "practical" buy.

[zcat3]

Having had my 2008 package 6 for a week now, everyone I talk to seems amazed that the car was only $25K. I can't think of any other car that would have all these features, drive as nice, and has as much utility in this price range. As a point of reference, the car I am mothballing in place of the Prius is a 2000 BMW M5 - perhaps one of the nicest overall performance / luxury cars ever made. I do not feel the Prius is a significant downgrade in luxury - o.k., maybe it can't go 0-60 in under 5 seconds, but so what. The Prius does have more passenger room than the M5 (which is a large car). I just put my first tank of gas in the other day and it was $4.07 for regular unleaded here on the San Francisco Peninsula - and it is only going higher. Seems to me I got a bargain - no price premium added at all.

[Rybold]

EXPLANATION ..................................
===============================

It's pretty simple to me ... If you are driving a Ford Expedition or Explorer (EPA city of 13mpg) or a Chevy Tahoe (EPA city of 14mpg), and the vehicle is WORTH $27,000 or more, then if you trade it in on a Prius valued at $26,999 or less, then with 45mpg, your fuel costs will be 1/3 of what they were previously. (To be exact, 13/45 = 0.28) For every $100 that you would have spent, you will now spend $28. For me, I drive 22 miles each way to work, double that and add some miles for lunch time, and I drive 50 miles per day. 50 miles times 30 days = 1500 miles/month. (yes, I still drive my car on the weekends) 1500 miles / 13mpg = 115 gallons. 1500 miles / 45mpg = 33 gallons. 115 times $4.00 = $460/month ... 33 times $4.00 = $132/month. Savings = $328 per month! Plus BRAKE PADS and TIRES!!! (Prius is half the weight of a Tahoe and had regenerative braking)

On the contrary, if you are already driving a car that gets 35mpg (as I get in my Corolla), and your car is only worth $14,000 (like my Corolla), then it would take $12,000 in fuel savings to justify this as an investment. So, in my case, I just semi-hypermile and get the EPA rating of 35mpg.

[DeadPhish]

Originally Posted by Rybold

EXPLANATION ..................................
===============================

It's pretty simple to me ... If you are driving a Ford Expedition or Explorer (EPA city of 13mpg) or a Chevy Tahoe (EPA city of 14mpg), and the vehicle is WORTH $27,000 or more, then if you trade it in on a Prius valued at $26,999 or less, then with 45mpg, your fuel costs will be 1/3 of what they were previously. (To be exact, 13/45 = 0.28) For every $100 that you would have spent, you will now spend $28. For me, I drive 22 miles each way to work, double that and add some miles for lunch time, and I drive 50 miles per day. 50 miles times 30 days = 1500 miles/month. (yes, I still drive my car on the weekends) 1500 miles / 13mpg = 115 gallons. 1500 miles / 45mpg = 33 gallons. 115 times $4.00 = $460/month ... 33 times $4.00 = $132/month. Savings = $328 per month! Plus BRAKE PADS and TIRES!!! (Prius is half the weight of a Tahoe and had regenerative braking)

On the contrary, if you are already driving a car that gets 35mpg (as I get in my Corolla), and your car is only worth $14,000 (like my Corolla), then it would take $12,000 in fuel savings to justify this as an investment. So, in my case, I just semi-hypermile and get the EPA rating of 35mpg.

Cliff notes...
if one already has a fuel efficient car don't trade just for savings in fuel;
if one has a very inefficient vehicle and it's the close to the normal time to look at different vehicles the hybrids will save a ton of money in fuel.

[Tideland Prius]

Originally Posted by DeadPhish

Cliff notes...
if one already has a fuel efficient car don't trade just for savings in fuel;
if one has a very inefficient vehicle and it's the close to the normal time to look at different vehicles the hybrids will save a ton of money in fuel.

I like that summary haha