June 11, 2008. Toyota president with PHEV Prius. Congress to meet.

[Rybold]

Toyota Motor Corp. President K. Watanabe stands by a new plug-in hybrid on June 11, 2008.
Toyota Motor Corp. - Yahoo! News Photos

Toyota To Display Plug-In Prius at Congressional TVA Caucus Field Hearing in Nashville
"The Congressional TVA Caucus field hearings on electric drive vehicles will begin at 10:15 a.m. in Senate Hearing Room 12. A tour of all manufacturer's vehicles and a media availability will take place at the main entrance of Legislative Plaza on 6th Avenue from 9:30 to 10 a.m."

TVA: Tennessee Valley Authority - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hopefully, our congressmen will come out of this thinking more about what we need to do NOW for the future.

[Scruge]

hmmm..
Ethanol demand is contributing to higher food prices.

I guess EV will mean higher electric bills and brown outs.

btw.. running a car off the power grid isn't very efficient, conversion and transmission losses suck.

[Bryan5]

That's an ugly paint job.

[Rybold]

Originally Posted by Scruge

hmmm..
Ethanol demand is contributing to higher food prices.

I guess EV will mean higher electric bills and brown outs.

btw.. running a car off the power grid isn't very efficient, conversion and transmission losses suck.

The EV1 did not have the highly improved regenerative braking systems that today's prototype hybrids have. For series hybrids, in which the electric motors are mounted at the wheels, there is no loss in energy from having to move the mass of a transmission and differential as well. Many prototypes are claiming the wheel mounted generators will perform virtually all of the braking, with conventional disk brakes being more of just a security measure.

Another thing to consider: the entire U.S. population is not going to just run out and buy electric vehicles. Electric vehicles will increase in number over a period of possibly ten years. Power companies will [hopefully] have time to adjust.

[skruse]

Power companies and individuals will adjust. We will make greater use of renewable, sustainable energy sources (solar, hydro, wind, geothermal). There will be increasing use of PV panels on the roofs of homes, businesses, schools and churches for electricity and hot water. Just as Germany has done and is doing all this, increasingly North American utilities will offer incentives and rate structures for distributed power (vs. mega centralized power plants). Southern California Edison and Pacific Gas and Electric are already moving in this direction. As liquid fuels (gasoline, diesel) go to $10 gal, there will be a stampede toward PHEVs and EVs that allows people, at least for local driving, to by pass fuel stations.

[thecoook]

I think oil prices and the freemarket solutions to it are doing more/faster than anything Congress could put together.

[chogan2]

Originally Posted by Scruge

hmmm..
Ethanol demand is contributing to higher food prices.

I guess EV will mean higher electric bills and brown outs.

btw.. running a car off the power grid isn't very efficient, conversion and transmission losses suck.

The last statement is not right. Because ICE inefficiency sucks even more. In terms of fuel cost per mile or C02 emissions per mile at the national energy grid mix, EVs appear much better than traditional ICE vehicles. Take a look at the statistics on the 2003 RAV4 EV on Fuel Economy. The RAV4 gas version was rated at 23 MPG, the EV version was rated at 112 MPG equivalent.

The second statement is at least arguable. If vehicles were charged solely at nighttime, nearly the entire US fleet mileage could be converted to electric miles before new electric generating capacity would be required. (Because, now, electrical use at night is typically half the daytime peak.) And if the existing generating equipment were used that way (more efficiently, with full nighttime load), electric bills would come down as the fixed cost of the generating equipment was spread over more KWH. And, if daytime charging were to be come enough of an issue, vehicle charges could be required to have interlocks so that they could only recharge on offpeak hours, or pay extra for daytime recharge.

There's really a lot going for a PHEV solution.

[Rybold]

Originally Posted by skruse

There will be increasing use of PV panels on the roofs of homes, businesses, schools and churches

I've been thinking a lot about this over the past week, and I have arrived at the position that California (first, as an example - but anyone is welcome) should require all home builders to install at least one solar panel on every new house built (with a minimum watt requirement). I don't know how to suggest this to the govt. myself, but if anyone can connect me to the proper website or email address, I would be glad to make the suggestion. I would hope for such a requirement to become effective Jan. 01, 2009.

Originally Posted by chogan2

If vehicles were charged solely at nighttime, nearly the entire US fleet mileage could be converted to electric miles before new electric generating capacity would be required.

Excellent point!

[Scruge]

Originally Posted by chogan2

The last statement is not right. Because ICE inefficiency sucks even more. In terms of fuel cost per mile or C02 emissions per mile at the national energy grid mix, EVs appear much better than traditional ICE vehicles.

Assuming the power plant is burning oil, coal or natural gas to run its external combustion engine (steam, thermal engine) to turn the generator I would say it is working with the same inefficiency as the ICE 20%. Plus the power plant has the additional losses from transformation and transmission which can be as high as 20-30%.. so you wind up with total efficiencies of 15% before you've even charged your battery. Now factor your EV's charging/discharging and motor losses of 30+%. The way I see it your over all efficiency is down to 10-12% running off the power grid.

$10 gal, there will be a stampede toward PHEVs and EVs that allows people, at least for local driving, to by pass fuel stations.

I agree.
Look at current demand for small cars.. up 50-70% over last year this time.

[Earthling]

Originally Posted by Scruge

Assuming the power plant is burning oil, coal or natural gas to run its external combustion engine (steam, thermal engine) to turn the generator I would say it is working with the same inefficiency as the ICE 20%.

I don't have the exact figures, but you are way off with that statement.

Power plant efficiency is closer to 50 percent than 20 percent. It's about double the efficiency of an ICE.



Harry