Plug-in Hybrid Prius Destroyed in Fire

[eurosteve]

There are people out there paying $21,600 to $32,550 to have this PHEV system installed in their Prius? The Hymotion conversion is only $10,000. That seems awfully steep - especially now that their safety record appears to be marred.

[ZC1]

Originally Posted by eurosteve

There are people out there paying $21,600 to $32,550 to have this PHEV system installed in their Prius? The Hymotion conversion is only $10,000. That seems awfully steep - especially now that their safety record appears to be marred.

Referencing the high cost of conversion, it seems some people have some money to burn.

ZC1

[efusco]

The Hybrids Plus response is darn thin too, IMO....

Hybrids Plus responds to several recent media misrepresentations.


It has come to our attention that several articles on the South Carolina Prius incident have portrayed inaccurate information. We would like to clarify the following points:

· There was no “explosion” involved. The study group positively ruled out gasoline tank involvement.
· In the manufacture of battery packs, Hybrids Plus does not “solder cells together.” Our process is one of welding cells together with spot welding equipment using specifications provided by the cell manufacturer.
· We do not purchase our lithium ion cells from a distributor. We buy directly from the manufacturer, and they are shipped directly to us from their factory.
· The built-in charger for the PHEV 15 system did not overheat and had no role in the cause of the fire. When the incident occurred the vehicle was on the highway being driven, not plugged in and charging.
· The Hybrids Plus systems are tested before shipment. The Hybrids Plus company vehicle, a 2007 Toyota Prius PHEV 30 is continuously being driven and tested. To date it has logged 28000 miles in 10 months.

[efusco]

I certainly would rather have seen something on the order of:
"Hybrids Plus is very concerned about the recent loss of a Prius using one of our conversions to a plug-in Prius. We are immediately ending any further conversions until such time that we can fully investigate and determine the cause of this incident and to make any necessary design changes to assure that our systems are in perfect working order and completely safe. We regret this incident and loss and will move forward aggressively to reassure our customers that our product is safe and/or we will move forward to make our products safer once the cause has been determined."

Instead they post rebuttals to fairly insignificant points (ok, it wasn't the charger, that's kind of important, but really, the general public has no clue anyway.)

[ZC1]

Originally Posted by efusco

...Instead they post rebuttals to fairly insignificant points (ok, it wasn't the charger, that's kind of important, but really, the general public has no clue anyway.)

Once the story hits Main Street USA (via CNN, MSNBC, USA Today, Wall Street, etc) every untenable irrational and faulty conclusion will be brought forth, contaminating the real safety record and reliability of the system, which futher stymies progress and acceptibility of electric cars among the public and among potential first adopters
.
They should be worried of inaccurate bad press and I think that statement (by Efusco) is a smart CYA.

ZC1

[MikeSF]

just read the press release, and I really hate to be a pessimist here, but it sounds like a "lets cover our asses" press release. It's really hard to believe what's said when it comes from the company of the product who had the problem. That being said, they are replacing the packs free of charge, and looking at their website they are some expensive as all MFing hell conversion kits! Might as well buy two Prius cars for that price!

[hill]

Originally Posted by ZC1

Once the story hits Main Street USA (via CNN, MSNBC, USA Today, Wall Street, etc) every untenable irrational and faulty conclusion will be brought forth, contaminating the real safety record and reliability of the system, which futher stymies progress and acceptibility of electric cars among the public and among potential first adopters
.
They should be worried of inaccurate bad press and I think that statement (by Efusco) is a smart CYA.

ZC1

The story is about a half month old. It never "hit". Seems the mainstream media considered it a non-issue. Probably because the media is tired of being blasted with my favorite come-back, "How many gasoline related auto fires were there, resulting in fatalities, injury, property damage, and pollution, today alone? ... much less, how many thousands over THIS decade alone?". Heck, the batteries survived, they were not a cause of the fire, and because the company didn't poop out an instant answer as to 'why' it happened ... is that so bad? I like it that they're being thorough with their investigation.

[brighamwj]

Originally Posted by hill

The story is about a half month old. It never "hit". Seems the mainstream media considered it a non-issue. Probably because the media is tired of being blasted with my favorite come-back, "How many gasoline related auto fires were there, resulting in fatalities, injury, property damage, and pollution, today alone? ... much less, how many thousands over THIS decade alone?". Heck, the batteries survived, they were not a cause of the fire, and because the company didn't poop out an instant answer as to 'why' it happened ... is that so bad? I like it that they're being thorough with their investigation.

Just makes me want the Toyota Plug-In Li version all the more. If it burns - Toyota will replace it and whatever else it burns up (just hope that the toasted items weren't previously alive).

[miscrms]

This is really unfortunate. From my limited contact with Davide through the plug-in hybrid list he seems like a great guy. While they are obviously charging a lot for these systems, given the amount of R&D that has gone into it compared to the number of systems sold I doubt they've actually cleared dollar one. Despite that Davide (unlike most other commercial converters) has been very active in supporting the open-source development efforts, frequently chiming in with helpful bits of advise to help keep people on the right track and furthering the public understanding of the details of how the Prius works.

Lets not forget that the reason we will probably see a phev out of Toyota and GM is because of the buzz and proof offered by these early independent converters. It wasn't that long ago that both companies were saying that no one wanted a phev and furthermore the technology wasn't there to do it anyway. So companies like this and the volunteers from Cal-cars (along with long time proponents like Dr. Andy Frank) came along to try and prove them wrong. They went out and built the cars to show it could be done. They drove them to DC and took congressmen for rides. They put the bug in peoples ear that this could be done, and could make a significant difference in our national fuel consumption and that there were plenty of people out there who wanted one. That started people (including congress) asking the automakers why they weren't making phevs.

I say its unfortunate, because this is just the kind of thing that happens in R&D. If you are Toyota you would be testing these things behind closed door and under controller circumstances for years before they were out on the street. The small independent converters don't have that luxury. I believe Hybrids Plus and most the others have done an impressive job testing these things to try and avoid a situation like this. But ultimately given their limited resources and zero technical details from Toyota, they have to enlist the help of others to help put these cars through real world testing to refine the design. Fortunately there are people and organizations out there that see enough value in this technology to help support these efforts, at a significant cost to themselves. As a consequence, that testing is conducted in full public view, not on some closed proving ground. Honestly, the fact that there have not been more incidents like this speaks pretty highly of the quality of work that has gone into these conversions. Given all that I just hope this isn't the sort of event that the powers that be will use to help keep this technology down.

As far as root cause, its very tough to say. I think some of you are on the right track. Its most likely an unintended consequence of the interaction between the oem Prius systems and the phev system. Since these companies have had to reverse engineer the Prius, there is always the possibility of modes of operation that were not anticipated. The only way to find those situations is through real world testing.

Rob

[hill]

Originally Posted by eurosteve

There are people out there paying $21,600 to $32,550 to have this PHEV system installed in their Prius? The Hymotion conversion is only $10,000. That seems awfully steep - especially now that their safety record appears to be marred.

I may be mistaken, but doesn't the Hymotion's pack have less range and top-speed EV range? If you have an extra 20 or 30 mile range, rewrite the hardware to allow for freeway speeds, seems like that would be worth it. Especially considering fuel will only continue to spiral ever upward.

.