New electric car start-up survives!

[darelldd]

Originally Posted by joe_g

65 MPH

62 mph. A popular number in Europe as it equals 100 kph.

Originally Posted by ceric

It will sell well only if gas price hit $10 and above.

The Think sold huge when gas was $1.60, so I'm not sure where you get your confidence. The current projected sales price is a bit high, I agree! If it takes $10 gas to sell these, then we'd better get crackin' on increasing gas prices. I'm doing my part.

Originally Posted by nyty-nyt

Interesting. I think Ford owned this company at one time, and spent money developing the chassis and styling before selling it back to some Norwegians. Probably paid out a big bonus for those corporate decisions.

Ford licensed the Think and leased it here under their brand - to gain clean air credits in the easiest way possible. When the ZEV mandate went away, Ford - along with most other car companies - began crushing their EVs to get rid of them. After several protests, the remaining cars were instead shipped back to Norway where they are still living happy lives.

are lithium-ion batteries going to be prone to a short lifespan?

Not the good ones.

[daniel]

So you pay $31K for the car and you STILL have to make monthly payments of $314??? That would be a deal-breaker for me. The LiFePO4 batteries in my Xebra are too new to have a record, but they're supposed to be good for 6 or 7 years of daily use.

And while 62 mph would make freeway use possible, it would be uncomfortable when the speed limit is 70 mph and most cars are doing 75 and over. I often drive 60 on the freeway, but when it seems unsafe to go that slow I follow the flow of traffic, and I'd hate to be in a car that lacked the capability.

[darelldd]

This is definitely NOT meant to be a highway car. For me it is the IDEAL second car in that it *can* travel on any road legally. But it is a City car - between the NEV and full-featured car. In theory it is cheaper (needs to be!) and smaller and lighter than a full-featured EV. But way the heck more practical around town where you can confidently drive on the 45mph roads, and actually climb hills at the speed of traffic. I wouldn't get one for a freeway commute, but anything short of that, this would be hard to beat. The original Thinks were truly Awesome. They had a top speed of about 50 mph, and would go about 45 miles. This new one makes me drool. Needs to be priced appropriately though!

[miscrms]

Originally Posted by joe_g

From the North America FAQ it's $31,388 plus $314 / per month for the battery and maintenance.



65 MPH

BTW, I think we are talking about 2 different vehicles here. The think city is a small car with a 65mph top speed. This new model is the ox, a Prius sized 5 seater. With a 0-60 of 8.5 sec its unlikely top out at 65. Seems to me this new model is much more targeted at the US market. Price is of course the big question. $32k + $314 a month for the small one is pretty steep. Of course, its only 20k Euros elsewhere which until recently would have only been $20k.

Li-ion seems to be the latest buzz word everyone needs in their product, but its hard to see prices being attractive for at least a few more years. Wish there was more development going on in NimH, that horse really never got a chance to run between the patent issues and SUV/Muscle Car craze.

Rob

[miscrms]

Originally Posted by daniel

The thread title is grossly misleading: "New electric car start-up survives!" might be appropriate AFTER they've actually sold enough of the cars to insure that they will survive. This car does not yet exist, you cannot buy it, and the claims are dishonestly stated in the present tense even though the car is not available for purchase!

There ought to be a rule that cars that DO NOT YET EXIST cannot be described in the present tense, as though the claims had some basis in reality!!!

Thats a little harsh isn't it? Think has been around for many years, and frankly I'm astonished they survived the last 10 years given how much interest there was in EVs over that time.

Originally Posted by ceric

It will sell well only if gas price hit $10 and above.

Prius 5 Years
Depreciation------ $12,750
Interest---------- $4,000
Insurance--------- $4,250
Sales tax--------- $1,100
Fuel-------------- $5,000 ($6652 @$4.08, $8150 @$5, $16300 @$10)
Maintenance/Repair $1,500
Cumulative total-- $28,500 ($30,152, $31,650, $39,800)

Think City 5 Years
Depreciation------ $18,615 (at Prius rate, could be almost $0)
Interest---------- $5,840
Insurance--------- $0
Sales tax--------- $1,606
Fuel-------------- $0
Maintenance/Repair $18,840 ($314/mnth)
Cumulative total-- $44,901 ($26,286 as depreciation approaches $0).

Seems like depreciation would really be key. If you assume it depreciates at the same rate as a Prius, its pretty rough from a strictly cost standpoint. Given that the key wear item, the battery, is always new and that existing EVs have actually appreciated over 10 years (without battery replacement protection), you might be able to make a case for a much lower rate of depreciation (assuming gas stays at $4 or continues to go up.) Of course if the dollar ever rebounds and brings this back down to $20k and $200 a month it would be a whole new ball game.

Rob

[daniel]

Originally Posted by darelldd

This is definitely NOT meant to be a highway car. For me it is the IDEAL second car in that it *can* travel on any road legally. But it is a City car - between the NEV and full-featured car.

Okay. If it's not meant to be a highway car, then the specs are good. But I'd have thought the IDEAL second car would be a freeway-capable EV, considering how many places are reached more easily on the freeway. In my case, my Xebra works for most of my driving, but for those almost-weekly trips to Coeur d'Alene, I pretty much need to go on the freeway.

[darelldd]

Originally Posted by miscrms

BTW, I think we are talking about 2 different vehicles here.

Oops! Completely my fault. I was just dealing with a bunch of new articles on the Think City (seen the new version?!) I just left my brain on idle when I came in here. Sorry!

Originally Posted by daniel

But I'd have thought the IDEAL second car would be a freeway-capable EV

Ignoring the part where this actually IS a freeway car, and I blew it... let me answer where we diverged:

The IDEAL (let's keep the emphasis since it makes it more punchy) second car is a city-class vehicle. That's because the ideal FIRST car is a full-function EV. After all this time, I'm somewhat surprised that you assumed something like the Prius as the ideal first car?

[darelldd]

Originally Posted by miscrms

Thats a little harsh isn't it? Think has been around for many years, and frankly I'm astonished they survived the last 10 years given how much interest there was in EVs over that time.

Well... not really. As you say, the company has been around for many years. That means it isn't a "startup." If it ever "survived" that was in the early years. They have been surviving this whole time. Not consistenly producing, but muddling along. It does seem like an incongrous title for the reality of the situation.

[daniel]

Originally Posted by darelldd

The IDEAL (let's keep the emphasis since it makes it more punchy) second car is a city-class vehicle. That's because the ideal FIRST car is a full-function EV. After all this time, I'm somewhat surprised that you assumed something like the Prius as the ideal first car?

Okay. "First" and "second" can be interpreted in different ways. Until we have a solution allowing EVs to make long-distance road trips, or gas gets so expensive that stinkers become too expensive to operate, most families will want a stinker. If they have two cars, the other should be an EV. Ideally it should be able to do ALL the driving within its range, whether that be on high-speed roads or low-speed ones.

The Xebra is my primary car because it's the one I drive most days. Ideally I'd be able to take it on the freeway. But I had the Prius first, and I need the Prius for my summer trips to Canada. In that sense, my primary car is my second car, the Xebra.

Most families that have only one car will have a stinker. Until they're forced to give up road trips. Also, most families need a freeway-capable car, so if they have only one car, it will not be a "city" car like the Xebra. Thus their first car will be a stinker.

However, I'm not sure there's much point in quibbling about the labels "first" and "second." IDEALLY all cars would be EVs and a quick-charging network would replace gas stations and EVs would go on the freeway and would make long-distance road trips and all the electricity would come from safe, renewable, sustainable sources.

[Rybold]

Originally Posted by ceric

It will sell well only if gas price hit $10 and above.

The price of crude oil broke the record again today, coming just shy of $143 per barrel.

For everyone discussing this, note that there are two different cars discussed on this article. The "City," which has already been developed and will be selling in the U.S. in early 2009, and then the "Ox," which will not arrive until about 2010.

The "ideal" electric car that you discuss needs to have solar panels that cover the entire car's surface. Regenerative braking needs to do 99% of all braking. (Do any electric car models that are already being produced have regenerative braking? Is the implementation of regen. braking something new to the electric market?)