Hybrid cars may pose silent threat to the blind

[spitinuri]

And for the deaf we need a flashing light to alert them. For the deaf and blind we need a force field to gently push them out of the way. What about bycycles. They don't make much sound, could be dangerous too.

[Yak18]

Lots of cars are quiet. So quiet that people try to start them when they're already running...embarassing.

[Rakimb17]

This is strange. The only time that politicians are proactive is when the problem does not exist. Most deaf people can see, and most blind peolpe hear well enough to detect a Prius traveling fast enough to hurt them. This is a classic example of politics "picking on the litte guy". If they can force manufactures to put noismakers on hybrids, they can force them to make more efficient cars too. I'm throwing the BS flag.

[bwilson4web]

Hi,

Originally Posted by GCBloke

Just fired this off to my Congressman; it's not perfect but gets the point across. Bob; do you have a brief citation for the 2006 death stats?

...

The first attachment is Dr. Christopher Hogan's paper, "ANALYSIS OF BLIND PEDESTRICAN DEATHS AND INJURIES FROM MOTOR VEHICLE CRASHES, 2002-2006." This paper is important because if covers the years Prius have been available in the USA. In contrast, the NHTSA only analyzed 2006, a too small subset of the actual accident statistics at the June 23 hearing.

The second attachment is rough reading, "Backover and Non-Crash Events Special Crash Investigations", April 13, 2008, Augustus "Chip" Chidester of the NHTSA. In 2006, there were 50 incidents and 25 deaths where rear bumpers and engine running exhaust pipes crushed kids in backup accidents. On pp. 37, there is photo of the strike zone: (1) rear bumper, (2) exhaust pipe, and (3) disabled ultrasonic sensor. A child was crushed by that "noise making" SUV. In contrast, no blind have been killed by a Prius in 2002-2006. Twenty-five dead kids in 2006 alone.

HR 5734 is flawed because sections 4 and 5 mandate only noise makers added to hybrids. It does not ask "industry" to provide specifications and proposals to solve the real problem, pedestrian accidents. It does not provide a selection of at least three top approaches to get prototypes for field trials. It does not commit NHTSA to field testing these prototypes to find out which is most effective.

No, HR 5734 wants to research ONLY noise makers and NO OTHER TECHNICAL SOLUTION. Sorry, I've spent too much time with the images of the "Backover" report in my mind.

Bob Wilson

[donee]

Hi Bob,

Wont work. My phone in my office sounds like a phone that is 50 feet away on the other side of a divider. When I am in the lab area of my office, about 20 feet from the phone, I cannot tell if its my phone or the one 50 feet away that is going off. Its just the acoustics of the space. And similar accousics can happen outside too, get a few big billboard sized sound reflectors (Tractor-Trailers) around, and you have the same thing.


So, when the blind pedestrian hits that button, and 10 cars respond (which will be the reality the end of next year), what good is that going to be ?

The problem here is the total lack of common sense and paranoid irrationality by the blind population which is being whipped up by do-nothing, politcal hacks, rather than do their own jobs. Rather than something meaningful (hard), they have started this bill in congress. Kinda reminds me of the scarlett C episode, which lead to Alqueda having the opening to strike. I do not mean you are a such a politician, I think you are just trying to be reasonable with these hystericals. But, somebody has to tell these people they active systems are just a dead end.

If you put distinctive noises on cars, then the pedestrian cannot besure the noise is a car. And you could still have the circumstance where two cars have the same "ring tone".

Technology is a double edges sword. And the bell the hybrid is a total fiasco, rolling downhill with farce pushing it.

Hybrids make noises. At speed, these are the same noises that all other cars make.

I think the only thing practical is a ultrasound converter. Hybrids have ultrasonic inverters, which give off sound. Detecting that sound is a unique way of telling if a hybrid vehicle is around and powered up. Further testing needs to be done, of course. When the inverter is big enough (RX-400h) that its lower in frequency its no problem to hear a slow speed EV mode hybrid behind one as one is walking along on the side of the road. Its happened to me. Indeed, a coasting car would have been a total supprise, yet the RX-400h was clearly audible. COMPLETELY THE REVERSE OF WHAT THE BLIND COMMUNITY IS TELLING US.

[donee]

Hi Again Bob,

Rear view camera gotta be the most effective in all these backup rollover accidents. The camera is right there in the middle of the vehicle looking right back.

[Bill Merchant]

These are the sponsors. Contact them!
Rep. Edolphus Towns [D, NY-10] (originator)
Rep. Thomas Allen [D, ME-1]
Rep. Robert Andrews [D, NJ-1]
Rep. Robert Berry [D, AR-1]
Rep. Sanford Bishop [D, GA-2]
Rep. Earl Blumenauer [D, OR-3]
Rep. John Boozman [R, AR-3]
Rep. Madeleine Bordallo [D, GU-0]
Rep. Leonard Boswell [D, IA-3]
Rep. Robert Brady [D, PA-1]
Rep. Corrine Brown [D, FL-3]
Rep. George Butterfield [D, NC-1]
Rep. Barbara Cubin [R, WY-0]
Rep. Elijah Cummings [D, MD-7]
Rep. William Delahunt [D, MA-10]
Rep. Keith Ellison [D, MN-5]
Rep. Bob Filner [D, CA-51]
Rep. Luis Fortuno [R, PR-0]
Rep. Virgil Goode [R, VA-5]
Rep. Raul Grijalva [D, AZ-7]
Rep. Maurice Hinchey [D, NY-22]
Rep. William Jefferson [D, LA-2]
Rep. John Kuhl [R, NY-29]
Rep. Thomas Latham [R, IA-4]
Rep. John Lewis [D, GA-5]
Rep. Zoe Lofgren [D, CA-16]
Rep. Carolyn Maloney [D, NY-14]
Rep. Betty McCollum [D, MN-4]
Rep. James McDermott [D, WA-7]
Rep. James McGovern [D, MA-3]
Rep. Mike McIntyre [D, NC-7]
Rep. Jerry McNerney [D, CA-11]
Rep. Michael McNulty [D, NY-21]
Rep. Jerrold Nadler [D, NY-8]
Rep. Randy Neugebauer [R, TX-19]
Rep. James Oberstar [D, MN-8]
Rep. Steven Pearce [R, NM-2]
Rep. Collin Peterson [D, MN-7]
Rep. David Price [D, NC-4]
Rep. Charles Rangel [D, NY-15]
Rep. Linda Sanchez [D, CA-39]
Rep. Janice Schakowsky [D, IL-9]
Rep. Peter Sessions [R, TX-32]
Rep. Fortney Stark [D, CA-13]
Rep. Clifford Stearns [R, FL-6]
Rep. Ellen Tauscher [D, CA-10]
Rep. Gene Taylor [D, MS-4]
Rep. Timothy Walz [D, MN-1]
Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz [D, FL-20]
Rep. Peter Welch [D, VT-0]
Rep. Rob Wittman [R, VA-1]
Rep. Albert Wynn [D, MD-4]
Rep. Donald Young [R, AK-0]

Go to http://house.gov and find your representative, and the above.

[Wayne]

In 3 years of driving my Prius, I have only noticed a 'look' about the quietness of my car one time from one individual. And that was because my starter didn't make a noise. In the real world, my tires grind stones, my A/C and radio make a lot of noise, and that pesky 'pumping up' of the ABS would make ay blind person get out of the way. So, while certainly quieter than a normal car, it takes a LOT of effort to run in any sort of 'true stealth' mode!

[bwilson4web]

Originally Posted by donee

... My phone in my office sounds like a phone that is 50 feet away on the other side of a divider. When I am in the lab area of my office, about 20 feet from the phone, I cannot tell if its my phone or the one 50 feet away that is going off. Its just the acoustics of the space. And similar accousics can happen outside too, get a few big billboard sized sound reflectors (Tractor-Trailers) around, and you have the same thing.

So, when the blind pedestrian hits that button, and 10 cars respond (which will be the reality the end of next year), what good is that going to be ?

The blind "panic" fob uses remote keyless entry, wireless technology and along with the identification data, also provides a signal strength level. This means the car based logic can:

• 'bleep' only when close enough to be a hazard
• 'bleep' only if the signal level is increasing
• silent if leaving the area of the blind, deaf, or small children
• pulse-width and cycle modulate the 'bleep' in proportion to the risk
• our Prius already have fob receivers connected to horns and lights and only lack the software to interact with a blind "panic" fob

Originally Posted by donee

...
If you put distinctive noises on cars, then the pedestrian cannot besure the noise is a car. And you could still have the circumstance where two cars have the same "ring tone".

The software and receiver limit the 'bleeps' to only where it helps alert the driver, pedestrian and any by-standers when a hazard exists. Otherwise, it remains quiet.

Originally Posted by donee

... I think the only thing practical is a ultrasound converter. Hybrids have ultrasonic inverters, which give off sound. Detecting that sound is a unique way of telling if a hybrid vehicle is around and powered up. Further testing needs to be done, of course. When the inverter is big enough (RX-400h) that its lower in frequency its no problem to hear a slow speed EV mode hybrid behind one as one is walking along on the side of the road. Its happened to me. Indeed, a coasting car would have been a total supprise, yet the RX-400h was clearly audible. COMPLETELY THE REVERSE OF WHAT THE BLIND COMMUNITY IS TELLING US.

Actually I'd considered that in an earlier design:

But the problem is also economic:

• Prius already have key fob receivers connected to horn and lights
• including a blind 'panic' fob with the owner fobs would be a trivial cost

My real goal is to establish an open protocol for key fob receivers and transmitters, the key technology needed for the "smart highway." Sure, we'll 'bleep' for the blind, flash for the deaf, and 'double bleep' for pre-schoolers. But we also gain the ability to get car-to-car, wireless data networks:

• hybrid cars detect each other and alert to accident hazards
• hybrid cars detect each other and form high-speed, bumper-to-bumper convoys on the highways

The same technology that alerts us to the blind is the foundation for the "smart highway." Our savings in both lower insurance rates and fuel savings more than pays off the software required.

Bob Wilson

[patsparks]

My prius makes a "bonk" noise as blind pedestrians bounce off the bonnet, isn't that good enough? They are so hard to avoid after all.