Correction: Solar panels to only supply a portion of power for air conditioning on 2010 Prius

[Jack66]

Originally Posted by hill

Read up on Photo cels. You'll then understand how little the amount of energy is, that one can get from the surface area on a prius. At least P.V. isn't as impractical as hydrogen cars ... but look at all the misinformed running around the landscape that wrongly think this is going to be a silver bullet for the future of energy demands. Yes, the AP story was in dire need of corection, and it was just a matter of time.

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Thanks, Hill, I've done that. Even though the energy created is small, it is still something. If the panels are not an accessory then that energy will be created for the car regardless of the cost to put them there.

The weak point of my own argument is that the PV cells were only mentioned for offsetting the A/C. Why not say something about keeping the batteries charged (nice for extended absences) or charging cellphones and other devices while the car is turned off? I think they would have mentioned it if it was an option.

[abq sfr]

Eight hours? I'm at work 9 hours, and the sun shines all of those hours, at mile-high elevation. Except every day I try (with varying success) to find one of those hard-to-come-by shady parking spaces when I get to work so I don't have to run the damn AC so hard to cool it off in the afternoon when I leave. It's probably more cost-effective to park in the shade than to rely on a $2,000 roof photocell upgrade to help run your AC or charge your traction battery. Depends on how effective the solar panel is, but my gut feeling is to seek out a shady parking space and forget the solar panel. However, in the winter.... put those electrons into the traction battery!!!!!!

[viking31]

This is probably the dumbest thing Toyota has done in a long time. The public will assume these cells will provide a significant amount of power to the Prius. Which of course they won't. They will add significantly to the cost of the car compared to the ROI they will return in power. Solar cells only work efficiently in bright direct sunlight of which most times the car will not be driven in most cases such as the morning and evening commutes, hazy days, nighttime, long Midwest and Northeast winters, etc...

I'm all for the use of solar in practical situations such as home electrical and especially home water heating. A hopefully soon it will become truly economical to power homes from rooftop mounted solar cells. But to try to fool the public into believing the car will get a fair amount of power from the cells when in reality one can only expect a fraction of a percent of its power from the roof cells, well that's just bad marketing.

Rick
#4 2006

[priusenvy]

Originally Posted by viking31

The public will assume these cells will provide a significant amount of power to the Prius.

This is the result of Americans obtaining their science education from Fox News.

Breaking News | Latest News | Current News - FOXNews.com

We're in serious trouble in this country if this is how much dumbing-down is needed for the average American to understand.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." --often attributed to Albert Einstein.

[V8Cobrakid]

anything that helps...

I wonder about priuschat sometimes... Back in 04 when i joined, it was an " anything that helps" attitude. Now it's everyone having too much time on their hands and liking to argue and debunk development.

If you create a market for something.. someone will expand to support it. more profit will be turned and more research will be done. the faster this happens, the faster we have the best products...

[usbseawolf2000]

Another angle to look at this....

If $200 solar panel can prolong battery drain (not necessarily AC usage but also low speed EV mode traffic jam) by say 25%, this will allow downsizing of the expensive NiMH pack to to 1 kWh from the current gen 1.3 kWh... saving $700-$1,000 cost. Overall saving of $500-$700. See how things work out?

This could be one of many ingenious way to make HSD price lower, lighter(?), smaller and at the same time look/sound cooler.

Ken have pointed out many time from the history previous Prius generations, the HV battery capacity gets smaller and smaller. This may very well be the next step.

[Wildkow]

Viking31 says . . .

Originally Posted by viking31

This is probably the dumbest thing Toyota has done in a long time. The public will assume these cells will provide a significant amount of power to the Prius. . . .

and Priusenvy replied to Viking31 with . . .

Originally Posted by priusenvy

This is the result of Americans obtaining their science education from Fox News.

Breaking News | Latest News | Current News - FOXNews.com

We're in serious trouble in this country if this is how much dumbing-down is needed for the average American to understand.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." --often attributed to Albert Einstein.

Is there some kind of link here that I missed? Toyota does something stupid according to Viking31 which makes people believe that the new solar roof proposed will generate lots of power. Priusenvy then quips that the fault somehow lies with Fox News because people learn their dumbed down science from this channel. Good grief, its super secret project which means there isn't a lot of information, not to mention they have 3 minutes to cover it in and the fact that they're news people not scientist. What do you want?!? Show me another MSM report on this subject please.

It's quite clear that we not only have the well known BDS (Bush Derangement Syndrome) running rampant on this web site but it seems we have a new contender called FNDS (Fox News Derangement Syndrome) as well.

Wildkow

[viking31]

Originally Posted by priusenvy

This is the result of Americans obtaining their science education from Fox News.

Breaking News | Latest News | Current News - FOXNews.com

We're in serious trouble in this country if this is how much dumbing-down is needed for the average American to understand.

Not quite sure what Fox News has to do with it or CNN or MSNBC or ...???

Your attitude towards the majority of Americans is downright arrogant and insolent. I am sure YOU (believe) are much smarter than most.

I would bet with high odds if you took a Prius with solar panels on its roof, parked it out in front of a shopping center in a middle to upper class neighborhood (we're assuming these people most likely have a higher than average level of education) and asked them how much power those cells supply to the Prius, I would bet most would say significant if not all.

So does that mean they are stupid? Or that they watch Fox News (whatever that means)? Of course not. Many are professionals; doctors, nurses, educators, CPA's, executives, etc. They are good at what they do for a living. You rely on them either directly or indirectly on a daily basis.

They simply do not have an understanding of how little power such an array would provide towards the overall power required by an automobile such as the Prius. Just because they have not learned about watts, amps, volts, resistance, and power outputs of solar cells in various conditions does not quantify them as dumber than you.

My point as expressed in my OP was this is a very misleading marketing decision by Toyota to the general public. Privately I have no problems with you putting all the solar cells you want on anything you like. Knock yourself out.

But for Toyota to push such a concept to the general public is deceptive at best. I just can't wait hear the various stories of how the salesman in the showrooms are going to push this..." Well, Mrs. Kravitz, you probably won't even have to buy gas for the car on most days"...

Rick
#4 2006

[Wildkow]

Originally Posted by viking31

Not quite sure what Fox News has to do with it or CNN or MSNBC or ...???

Your attitude towards the majority of Americans is downright arrogant and insolent. I am sure YOU (believe) are much smarter than most.

I would bet with high odds if you took a Prius with solar panels on its roof, parked it out in front of a shopping center in a middle to upper class neighborhood (we're assuming these people most likely have a higher than average level of education) and asked them how much power those cells supply to the Prius, I would bet most would say significant if not all.

So does that mean they are stupid? Or that they watch Fox News (whatever that means)? Of course not. Many are professionals; doctors, nurses, educators, CPA's, executives, etc. They are good at what they do for a living. You rely on them either directly or indirectly on a daily basis.

They simply do not have an understanding of how little power such an array would provide towards the overall power required by an automobile such as the Prius. Just because they have not learned about watts, amps, volts, resistance, and power outputs of solar cells in various conditions does not quantify them as dumber than you.

My point as expressed in my OP was this is a very misleading marketing decision by Toyota to the general public. Privately I have no problems with you putting all the solar cells you want on anything you like. Knock yourself out.

But for Toyota to push such a concept to the general public is deceptive at best. I just can't wait hear the various stories of how the salesman in the showrooms are going to push this..." Well, Mrs. Kravitz, you probably won't even have to buy gas for the car on most days"...

Rick
#4 2006

Whatever. Look Viking31 I don’t know what set you off but my post makes no references to the intelligence of Americans. I merely pointed out that you thought Toyota took an action that was stupid, you used the term dumbest, and therefore the public will assume something that is not true.

Then in his reply Priusenvy made a statement to the effect that this mistaken assumption is due to the America Public getting its scientific education from science news reports on the Fox News Network. He cites a 3 minute clip about a secret air force aircraft, and how this report was dummied down, i.e. not detailed or accurate enough. I pointed out that it was brand new secret project, therefore not a lot on info available and that Fox only had 3 minutes for the report.

Not one word or concept in my post reflects upon the intelligence of the America Public. In fact if anyone is guilty of the arrogant and insolent attitude you accuse me of, it is you and your characterization that the easily deceived America Public will make a knee-jerk assumption that the power output will be significant because Toyota Marketing is advertising the fact that Toyota is putting Solar on the roof of the Prius. How do you know that? You're making the value judgment on the intelligence of the American Public! How do you know that they won’t supply the correct answer or answer with “I don’t know” if in fact they don’t know?

Sheesh man reel in the moral outraged rhetoric and read my post again. The last paragraph is a huge clue as to the subject of my post and it’s general premise. Just because we don’t see eyeball to eyeball on each and every issue doesn’t mean you have to go out of your way to fabricate crap just to bust my chops.

Have a nice day.

Wildkow

[DaveinOlyWA]

i think i will withhold judgment on the validity of this option... considering Toyota's track record, and the talent they have, i really dont feel that i am

1) have enough data to make an informed response

2) do not have enough inside information as to cost, tech parameters or the materials involved to determine the cost effectiveness of the panels.

and i really doubt that anyone else here does. any time weather conditions are involved, the option will obviously work better for some, not so well for others. considering that most of the Pri's are sold in the southern end of the country, i think they probably have a much better idea than most of you think.