Plug-in Hybrid Future: Andy Grove get it!

[misslexi]

Plugins sound good on paper, where's all the new electricity going to come from?

If oil is bad, nuclear is even worse. Coal, don't go there. Natural gas, cleaner but still a carbon footprint. No more rivers to dam. Solar's a start but only practical in certain areas of the country. Wind, not in my backyard. Tidal, kills fish.

Just as is claimed we can't drill our way out any time soon, we aren't going to plugin our way out either.

American freedom and ingenuity will lead the way, the government is just one of the hurdles to jump.

[Zythryn]

If EVERY car were a plug in that would be an issue.
Do you expect this to happen within a year or two??
I certainly don't. Look at all the people that still insist on driving vehicles that get <20mpg when vehicles that get over 40mpg are available.
Since plug ins typically will be plugged in overnight, there really is no additional generation needed until plug in hybrids or EVs become quite common.
My plug in from Hymotion has a 5kw battery. That is actually almost unnoticable. My neighbor has 8 100 watt house lights on all night. That is .8kw/hr on for 7-8 hours is 5.6 - 6.4kw. Turn the lights off, power the car, no problem

[skruse]

While we move toward PHEVs, smart cars and greater energy efficiency, we need a robust national program of walking and bicycle routes, electric & high speed rail - similar to the Interstate Highway effort of the 1950s. This must all be based on renewable, sustainable energy - solar, wind, hydro and geothermal. This is the effort Germany is following and follows the Rocky Mountain Institute - US Dept of Defense "Winning the Oil Endgame" strategy.

Diesel trucks must cease being "warehouses on wheels" and instead be used between trains & ports for short term hauling to cities. We must emphasize energy efficiency in everything we do.

[NYPrius1]

Originally Posted by Sheepdog

wether it's the dems or repubs, we best hope the new President has the stuff to make the hard speech to America. And the right stuff to put our energy future on the front burner and turn up the heat!

I agree!!
We must all come together and work to free us from Oil!

[misslexi]

The OP referenced a story that talks about plugins as a megatrend, obviously megatrend = megawatts. If plugins are really the way out of the oil mess it's reasonable to ask where the electricity is going to come from.

If only a relative few use plugins thats fine, the grid can no doubt support that, coupled with conservation as pointed out. That doesn't move us materially closer to freedom from oil. And even for those who do go plugin, if it turns out to be a good idea, once the rest of the herd catches on the law of supply and demand will apply to electricity.

I'm fortunate to live where electricity is quite inexpensive and renewable but there is very little prospect given current technology to expand the supply further. Heck, some want to tear down several of the dams already built in order to restore the river to it's original state. Some time ago Washington State embarked on an ambitious nuclear power plant expansion which I think to this date still stands as one of the worst public bond failures. We got one nuke out of it.

I'm not suggesting plugins are a bad idea, just if renewable, sustainable electricity is to really make a dent in oil's stranglehold, we're going to need a lot more of it, and that picture looks dim to me right now.

[Rybold]

For starters, by making significant improvements in regerative braking efficiency, we could reduce power consumption significantly. By requiring all passenger cars to weigh less than 2500 pounds, we could reduce consumption even more. In the popular recycling slogan, notice the order of the words: reduce, reuse, recycle. Reduce consumption first, then focus on where the energy is going to come from. The Prius runs on gasoline, yet is three times more efficient than a Ford Expedition.

Above, someone listed drawbacks with every form clean energy. The windmill people said "not in my backyard." I think that's what the people who are still driving SUVs would say; fashion before function. PEOPLE ARE DYING HERE!!! THERE IS DROUGHT, FLOODING, HURRICANES!!!!

I have always thought that harnessing the ocean's currents is a dependable, always-on source of energy.

[joe1347]

Originally Posted by misslexi

Plugins sound good on paper, where's all the new electricity going to come from?

If oil is bad, nuclear is even worse. Coal, don't go there. Natural gas, cleaner but still a carbon footprint. No more rivers to dam. Solar's a start but only practical in certain areas of the country. Wind, not in my backyard. Tidal, kills fish.

Just as is claimed we can't drill our way out any time soon, we aren't going to plugin our way out either.

American freedom and ingenuity will lead the way, the government is just one of the hurdles to jump.

A little bit of looking will show that the current electric grid can accommodate a 'few' PHEV's

Turn off your AC: Nation's power grid can handle 180 million EVs

That figure was part of a report by the U.S. Department of Energy's Pacific Northwest National Laboratory.

As for using fossil fuels to supply the electricity required to charge a PHEV. Agree, more coal will have to be burned. However, coal fired power plants are much more efficient than burning gasoline (in a vehicle) and the net use of fossil fuels will drop - which translates to less green house gas emissions.

As for switching from coal or natural gas to renewables - that's about another 10 (or many more) threads.

One thing to note regarding plug-in hybrids that hasn't yet penetrated the publics consciousness is that Plug-in's are much cheaper to operate than a conventional gas only car. There is a large segment of the population complaining about the price of gas that doesn't realize the a plug-in hybrid can be driven for the equivalent of less than one dollar a gallon for gas. This is the cost using coal or natural gas generated electricity (from the utility). Depending on where you live, the cost will double or triple if you power your plug-in using solar energy instead of fossil fuel generated electricity. But even as pricey as solar is today, it's still cheaper to run your car on solar-generated electricity than it is to use oil (gasoline).

[PriuStorm]

Originally Posted by qbee42

This thread is a good example of Americans not pulling together for the common good. Less than ten posts and it has turned into a pissing match over politics.

Tom

Tom, what do you expect? Before the Repub and Dem presidential candidates were even clear, the Presidential Election had already degraded into a pissing match over politics.... It's like a SuperBowl that doesn't end, the 'sport' of the new century.

[Hudsonglas]

OK, so we all have a prius, but how are we going to heat our houses?

[tochatihu]

For now, the problem is the availability of large rechargeable batteries at acceptable prices. As long as that's the case, more fuel will be saved by 'spreadling them thinly across the fleet'. Which is to say in hybrid vehicles with approximately the battery size of a Prius.

A few PHEVs won't make a difference; will neither help nor hurt the fleet fuel consumption. When the batteries are available, then it will be appropriate to build a large number of PHEVs.