Duke Energy & GM team up on electric vehicles

[CMonster]

Charlotte Business | Charlotte Observer

Most of the info isn't new, but I'm glad my local power company is thinking ahead. I didn't know they were testing some plug-in Priuses, and the bit about taking power from your car for use on the grid is new to me.

“This vehicle (the Volt) is real. It's coming into production,” said Britta Gross, a GM engineer. “We know that when the vehicle is in the showroom and ready for sale, it's got to work seamlessly with the infrastructure.”
Duke has been working on a new “smart grid” in Charlotte for several years with future widespread production of electric cars in mind.
The Charlotte-based utility has been installing two-way data communication devices on its power lines and new smart meters on selected Charlotte homes to research how it could work. It has retrofitted several Toyota Prius hybrids so the batteries can be recharged in home outlets.
The grid would allow two-way data communication with the new electric cars when they are plugged in. The system could signal when cheap power is available for the six- to eight-hour recharge time or draw unused juice from the car's battery to help meet high power demand on the grid – if the car's owner is out of town, for example.

[SomervillePrius]

First I don't see this as a problem. Most cars will be re-charges during the evening night when we already have an over capacity in the system. Remember that plants are not shut down during the night so they generate more power then we need at night. So in a way we will simply make the system better utilized for the power companies.

Second, even with an full EV car I doubt much can be pumped back into the system!

Seems like a way to get a press release without having to do much real work...

[taggart]

The article states they want owners to recharge when demand is low so they would realize higher profits.

Would they pay the owner or offer a rebate when they extract energy from the car battery? What happens if they sap the energy from the battery minutes before the owner takes it out? Does the owner then have to delay his trip while the battery charges at a higher cost?

[thepolarcrew]

"The Charlotte-based utility has been installing two-way data communication devices on its power lines and new smart meters on selected Charlotte homes to research how it could work."

Could this lead to, you are charging some where on the road and you are sent a bill for your recharge? Kind of like the traffic camera.

Are these vehicles going to come with a special plug, which will require the utility company (or electrician) to install?

[Bryan5]

Originally Posted by SomervillePrius

First I don't see this as a problem. Most cars will be re-charges during the evening night when we already have an over capacity in the system. Remember that plants are not shut down during the night so they generate more power then we need at night. So in a way we will simply make the system better utilized for the power companies.

Second, even with an full EV car I doubt much can be pumped back into the system!

Seems like a way to get a press release without having to do much real work...

That's what I was thinking. But I'm not an electrical engineer, so I'm just guessing.

[thepolarcrew]

I am some what cynical when it comes to these things. Wouldn't surprise that this could be part of the reason the big 3+ are sitting on the fence.

Random drive offs with out the electric company making a buck. Person has a regular plug and can plug in just about any where, kind of like the wireless thing when you need access on the road.

[Rybold]

Originally Posted by taggart

What happens if they sap the energy from the battery minutes before the owner takes it out? Does the owner then have to delay his trip while the battery charges at a higher cost?

I have a feeling a lot of people would pull the plug when the car is fully charged, if this was the case. The power companies would have no control over that. I really don't see this whole "returning" power to the grid from EVs concept ever working. If you stop and think about it for a while, it would only make sense during a power outage (either localized or widespread). Another possibility is that during "peak demand," they may withdraw a LITTLE bit from millions of car batteries just to "top off" what the power grid is already producing (of course, this assumes that people's cars are plugged in and not charging during the peak hours).

[SomervillePrius]

I like the idea with "smart chip" in the car that can recognize my car and charge me for filling it up even when somewhere else. This will encourage mall etc to install plug-in plugs as it wouldn't cost them much. That said I thought in CA many places (like Fry's) offer(ed) free EV plugs and fill ups to bring people to their stores.

[thepolarcrew]

Like the toll pass? Could prepay?

[joe_g]

Originally Posted by SomervillePrius

Remember that plants are not shut down during the night so they generate more power then we need at night. So in a way we will simply make the system better utilized for the power companies.

Generation always matches demand. If there is too much power going in, all the generators and big motors start spinning faster and faster storing the excess in their inertia until things start shutting down. If there is too little, the speed of everything starts dropping, again until something restores or the grid collapses. Since you don't see the frequency deviate from 60Hz, they're doing a pretty good job all the time at keeping the generation in exact check with the load.

Originally Posted by SomervillePrius

Second, even with an full EV car I doubt much can be pumped back into the system!

Seems like a way to get a press release without having to do much real work...

Agreed. Car batteries are VERY expensive. Do you want to use your VERY expensive battery to help the utility, unless they're going to pay you a BUNCH of money in exchange?