Next Gen Prius to have 67% larger NiMH battery with 71 MPG (vs. 50 MPG current Gen)

[usbseawolf2000]

This news is coming from the resource investor for the rare materials that NiMH battery uses. The author seems to be knowledgable (more than I am ) of "behind the scene" because I learned quite a few from reading the article. Here are some interesting info:

Toyota's current NiMH battery, which is a direct descendant of the original NiMH battery invented by Energy Conversion Devices, Inc., in the 1980s and licensed for manufacturing and use in vehicle propulsion to Toyota in the mid 1990s. It requires at least 12 kg (26 lbs) of the rare-earth metal, lanthanum, per Prius-sized battery. Today's Prius, utilizing such a battery, has a range of 500 miles on a 10.1 gallon tank of fuel at a top speed (capability) of over 90 miles per hour. Prius has very low emissions unmatched for its size, weight, and "cargo capacity (825 lbs)," until the recent introduction of 4-cylinder turbo-diesel-powered small cars by several European manufacturers. Reportedly the next generation Prius, due in 2009, will use a larger NiMH battery to achieve a fuel economy of 71 miles per gallon; it will require a battery made with 20 kg (44 lbs) of lanthanum.

....It is important that you know that every hybrid vehicle today mass produced for sale by Toyota, Honda, GM, Ford, and Chrysler utilizes a nickel-metal-hydride (NiMH) battery. Even more importantly you need to know that in the 2007 model year GM made or sold 9,000 'hybrid' vehicles and that all 9,000 were recalled to replace a defective NiMH battery. In the same year Toyota sold more than 250,000 Priuses and there is no report of any 2007 model year battery failure. Note well that Toyota makes its own NiMH batteries in-house and that GM buys its battery components from a Japanese manufacturer-not Toyota-and has them assembled by the joint venture between Chevron and Energy Conversion Devices, Inc called COBASYS, which has been in existence for most of the twenty-first century, has burned through more than $200 million of Chevron's money and has never made a profit! General Motors, Ford, and Chrysler have been forced to try to develop a lithium-ion technology based vehicle for the simple reason that due to mismanagement and short sighted planning they have no way whatsoever to obtain either the critical raw materials for, or NiMH batteries themselves. GM, for example, is only trying to make an expensive niche market lithium-ion plug-in hybrid, because it, through its own shortsightedness, cannot make a Prius fighter based on NiMH technology

....There is no longer any way for GM, Ford, or Chrysler to compete in the mass-produced, profitably sold, hybrid-powered vehicle market. These companies can only hope to survive as mass marketers of small diesel-powered cars and freight vehicles. Toyota and Honda are now and will remain the world’s auto giants....

Toyota does not want GM, Ford, and Chrysler to fail any time soon, because it fears that its capacity will not be able to capture enough of the cascade of market share with which it could be deluged.

Source

[dwdean]

Hmmmm....call me a stickler for details, but I though that the '09 was just a carry over and that the '10 was supposed to be the Gen III and that major changes were supposed to be in battery technology (lithium phosphate vs. NiMH) not battery size.

A bigger battery is sort of interesting, but making the anode 75% bigger (or at least using 75% more La) doesn't necessarily that they're going to get 75% more performance out of the finished battery. I'm sure that there will be some performance increase, but I thought that there was a serious point of diminishing returns on NiMH batteries (weight vs. charge density.)

This seems more like evidence that the Japanese are scrambling to ramp up NiMH battery production. If you gotta make more cars that depend on these batteries, you gotta get more batteries, and that's gonna mean that you gotta get more raw materials....

There is a small part of my brain that also saying, quietly, that a bigger NiMH battery might be the hedge for the '10 of they can't get the lithium technology to pan out.....

[jeffreykb]

An interesting article that is playing on recent statements by Toyota which declare Li battery packs are not ready for mass production in hybrid vehicles. Also, the GM recall of NiMH hybrid battery packs is directly mentioned.

Sounds like speculation of another material...like oil.

[thepolarcrew]

Oil? As in the price has dropped? If so, We had better not fall down on this one!

Need to keep push the tec bubble, reduce consumption and dependence ill regardless.

[usbseawolf2000]

Originally Posted by jeffreykb

Also, the GM recall of NiMH hybrid battery packs is directly mentioned.

Sounds like speculation of another material...like oil.

It is not a speculation. GM did recall their hybrid battery packs.

Battery pack recall has GM hybrid sales stuck in neutral

[pdhenry]

Toyota doesn't make their NiMH batteries. IIRC, Matsushita (Panasonic) builds them

[donee]

Hi dw...,

The article says "due in 2009". Which is not the same thing as the 2009 model year. Its goint to be the 2010 model year, probably being sold in October of 2009 that will have the bigger battery.

[hampdenwireless]

Originally Posted by pdhenry

Toyota doesn't make their NiMH batteries. IIRC, Matsushita (Panasonic) builds them

Sort of. It is a joint venture between Toyota and Matsushita.

AUTOSAVANT: Panasonic EV Energy Co. Hints at Toyota's Hybrid Ambitions

It is called Panasonic EV Energy Company but Toyota owns as much of it as Matsushita.

I was just telling my partner how much better Toyota is setup to make hybrids at dinner. GM's lack of planning is making things worse and worse for them. It would take at least three years for GM to get the same supply as Toyota is getting now.

[PriusSport]

Gen III must refer to the 2010 model year, due out next spring? The 09 Fall models are probably the same as the 08s. It could mean the Li ion technology originally intended for Gen III is not ready yet.

I was under the impression the Ford/Mercury hybrids were based on licensed Toyota technology--hence the same suppliers.

There are conflicting forces at work in the American economy putting pressure on the price of oil.The same speculative sources which pushed the price of oil up can also push it down. The car companies are desperate for lower oil prices.

[kazots]

Good for any technology that will stop the use of foreign oil. Our economy is in the dumps and may be just like so many super powers of the past. Countries that loose their economies to other countries and have no competitive edge. Not a producing economy but one that is stagnant. We should do everything to keep America first.