Arkansas Gazette - "Bell the Hybrid"

[bwilson4web]

Hi,

NWAnews.com :: Northwest Arkansas' News Source

... . . .
Hybrids don’t make much noise. They whisper — if that — when the combustion engines shut off as they stop at intersections. For those who take off slowly after a stop, the hushed electric motor barely hums. That’s all bad for blind people who rely on noise from car engines to decide when it’s safe to cross streets.

Even worse: There’s no clear solution.

“The problem is we don’t really have a good answer for how to deal with it,” said Bill Jacobson, . . .

So following their instructions, I wrote a 250 word, letter to the editor but you' all need to use your own words. I had to write tight but home boys and gals can and probably should write like we talk. Don't forget to slap HR 5734 cosponsors Marion Berry and John Boozman with a 'clue by four.' <GRINS>

Bob Wilson

[robbyr2]

That’s all bad for blind people who rely on noise from car engines to decide when it’s safe to cross streets.

Do blind people really cross the street without guide dogs or white canes to help us identify them? Do hybrid drivers look for ways to run down blind people?

Detroit has an answer- let's cut out all this crap about hybrids and electrics and go back to building crappy little cars with crappy little ICEs.

[Dave_PH]

Why do you hate blind people?

[robbyr2]

Apparently they think I hate them because I drive a Prius. From their website:

No one disputes that pedestrians cannot hear these vehicles (even their manufacturers concede this fact), and we believe it is preferable that the problem be addressed before the inevitable avalanche of tragedies involving blind people, cyclists, and children shocks the nation.

The only time a hybrid is completely quiet is when running in electric mode but not moving. I could hear the Prius at lunch today just fine while the tires were rolling. Actually, we come up several times. They noted in one article that to insure that the Prius was quiet (and it was only Priuses they're worried about), they didn't go over 5 mph or the ICE would come on.

The only answer they propose is to make hybrids (they don't mention electrics) sound just like an ICE, with the appropriate sounds of idling, accelerating, and decelerating. The only way to do that is to ban electrics and require that our ICEs always run. And not one peep about all the 4 cylinder (or less) ICEs that make no noise in idle mode.

[efusco]

Originally Posted by Dave_PH

Why do you hate blind people?

Come on, do you really not understand the issues or are you trying to be rude?

Nobody hates blind people. What we hate is that laws are being considered that will
1) CREATE noise pollution intentionally
2) Are based upon absolutely zero research that shows that is a) necessary, b) helpful in preventing injury.
3) Will add a cost to consumers.

Now, why do you want to buy a noisier more expensive car that doesn't need to be noisier or more expensive?

ZERO injuries to a blind person have been reported as a consequence of not hearing a hybrid vehicle.

The majority of the noise of a vehicle is from road contact at any speed above 24mph. Below 24mph the risk of injury or death are much lower a) b/c of the lower speed of impact, b) b/c of a lower chance of impact due to increase reaction time.

Finally, if blind people obey pedestrian laws and cross only at cross walks they will be as safe as sighted people.

[Dave_PH]

Take a deep breath and think about it. This sounds like something that could come out of Rush Limbaughs mouth

"Finally, if blind people obey pedestrian laws and cross only at ross walks they will be as safe as sighted people."

An undercurrent of the old "Personal Responsibility" rant. How about children? If they aren' careful should we let Darwin sort them out?

Why not an artificial noise? No one is proposing prying your hybrid from your cold dead hands.

[Rae Vynn]

Where I live, the majority of people who are killed while crossing streets are hit by big-ass pickups, driven too fast, by people who do not observe pedestrian crossing signs.
I've not seen a news story yet about anyone being hit by a Hybrid vehicle that was driving slow enough that the ICE was off.

[Zythryn]

Dave, I would submit that your prior comment (why do you hate blind people) sounds more like something that would come out of Rush Limbaughs mouth.
First, it is more about unneeded and unhelpful solutions that will cause unnecessary cost.
No blind people have been harmed. I have yet to see any comparison of number of injuries/deaths due to hybrids vs non-hybrids. I am guessing there are actually more for non-hybrids.
It so far looks like a bunch of political bluster which has politicians trip over each other trying to help the poor blind people before their opponent can.

[efusco]

Originally Posted by Dave_PH

Take a deep breath and think about it. This sounds like something that could come out of Rush Limbaughs mouth

"Finally, if blind people obey pedestrian laws and cross only at ross walks they will be as safe as sighted people."

An undercurrent of the old "Personal Responsibility" rant. How about children? If they aren' careful should we let Darwin sort them out?

Why not an artificial noise? No one is proposing prying your hybrid from your cold dead hands.

And you sound like mindless government making feel-good laws that have no validity.

Read the entire post, not just the last line. Children don't decide to run out in the street or not based upon the sound of the car...they chase their ball and never think to look...sound is nothing until you slam on the brakes and they give you the deer in the headlights look.

Look you prove to me that adding noise will have some positive impact on pedestrian injury and death and I'll accept it, but I can promise you that such things as air bags and ESC underwent MUCH greater scrutiny before they were deemed OK to install in cars and underwent a long period of consumer level study before they were determined to be necessary.

What is needed is an equally rigorous test to see if a noise maker is necessary and/or helpful on hybrids...how loud is necessary? What speeds should it be active?

Let's think who should take a deep breath...people bright enough to have considered this thoroughly. Who have a background in science and statistics. Who don't believe the government should be a nanny, but should enact necessary and appropriate laws only after due process and appropriate research so that we don't end up under the oppressive yoke of somebody's 'good idea' that ends up having unexpected negative consequences without any measurable benefit to anyone.

[Dave_PH]

There aren't that many blind people crossing streets and there aren't that many hybrids. I think the risk to children is greater.

Couldn't your arguments be used to oppose seatbelts too?

What's wrong with a warning sound? Granted I hated the backup beep but it did serve a purpose for the neighbor's kids who are always riding their bikes down the sidewalk and across my driveway. Noises do catch their attention.


***********************************

The beep did catch the kids attention when I was pulling out of the garage. They're small kids and they often use my driveway to turn around in, it's as far as their mom let's them go. What's so bad about a beep when moving forward? I just don't see the negative consequences of adding a forward beep.