Toyota to release 2 different Prius-es to US & Europe

[donee]

Hi Jared,

The 1.8 wont be that much faster off the line. What you are sensing is the engine being turned on. Off the line your on electric. So, with more weight of the bigger chasis and engine, it may have a slower 0-5 mph time, and the engine having more rotational inertia might not make on till the car has reached a higher speed. In the end, it will probably be very similar to the present Prius up to 30 mph.

[spwolf]

Originally Posted by jprates

How do you know that?



It's not optional, it's the only one you'll ever get.
Just like today, the future Prius will use the same ICE worldwide, I've got full confirmation from Toyota here.

I had already said it in this very same thread: Toyota to release 2 different Prius-es to US & Europe

because avensis starts at 19k euros here and prius starts at 24k euros? You think they will drop the base price by 5k euros? I kind of doubt it... i hope it will go down 2k, so it is slightly below mid level Avensis...

yeah, thanks for conformation... i didnt believe the stuff about 1.5l either but thought that danny might have actual source for it...

I dont think Toyota changed its mind, as R&D on engine takes time and money, 1.8l makes a lot of sense...

[spwolf]

Originally Posted by donee

Hi Jared,

The 1.8 wont be that much faster off the line. What you are sensing is the engine being turned on. Off the line your on electric. So, with more weight of the bigger chasis and engine, it may have a slower 0-5 mph time, and the engine having more rotational inertia might not make on till the car has reached a higher speed. In the end, it will probably be very similar to the present Prius up to 30 mph.

sure it would be... unless you think torque does not matter... having 30% more torque helps regardless of electric engines...

[talonts]

Originally Posted by spwolf

sure it would be... unless you think torque does not matter... having 30% more torque helps regardless of electric engines...

That's assuming you're getting 30% more torque. The engine is 20% larger, but of course that doesn't make it output 20% more power, and especially not 20 (or 30) % more torque, especially off the line. Without seeing full dyno curves for both engines, we won't know for sure.

My old 71 Mustang had a "small" 250CID straight six. It put out 300 ft-lbs peak, while the "larger" 302 put out 250. The SS was a serious grunter, the torque curve off the line was WAY above the 302 up into the higher rpms (most inline engines have that advantage, when compared to Vs of similar or slightly larger size).

I'd rather have a 1.0L turbo with larger MGs. Best of all worlds - more grunt off the line due to higher MG torque, good mpg at cruise with a tiny 1.0L, and passing power when the turbo and MGs enhance the ICE. Of course the Atkinson cycle might have to be dropped for best efficiency on the turbo, so that might not work. And the interaction of the turbo and MGs would be a software nightmare. I'd be interested to know if Toyota tested such a configuration and passed on it in favor of the 1.8L or not...

But I wouldn't turn down a turbo version of the 1.8L if that's "all" I could get ;-)

[donee]

Hi Sp...,

The Prius throttles the engine up slowly, so it does not have to use enrichment (you know that black puff of smoke out the back of a BMW). When your starting from a stop, the engine is off. And it does takes about half a second to come on, and another few seconds to get to full power. That is the "off-the-line" slowness of the Prius.
In merging duels, however, this car will be the ultimate. Come down a ramp and have some adolescent not let you merge, and they wont know what hit em as traffic surges ahead. The 1.8 liter Prius should be like a rocket in the rolling, engine-on accelleration.

[donee]

Hi Talonts,

Remember its more than bigger motors, one would also need bigger batteries. The MG2 in the Prius gets about 30 HP from the battery, and the other 30 HP from MG1 and the Engine.

[Patrick Wong]

Originally Posted by talonts

...My old 71 Mustang had a "small" 250CID straight six. It put out 300 ft-lbs peak, while the "larger" 302 put out 250.

Hi Tom,

I'm wondering how you figure 300 ft.-lb. I understand the power spec for that engine is 145 hp.
HowStuffWorks "1971, 1972, 1973 Ford Mustang Specifications"

According to this calculator, you would have to realize that hp at 2,500 rpm in order to generate torque of 300 lb-ft.
Horsepower Design Equations Formulas Calculator - Torque Rotating

Usually with this design of gas engine, maximum hp is realized at around 4,000 or 4,500 rpm while hp bears a fairly linear relation to rpm, so the hp at 2,500 rpm would be 100 hp or so.

BTW my first car was a 1969 Chevy Nova with 250 ci inline six and three-speed automatic, and that car had plenty of power.

[talonts]

Originally Posted by Patrick Wong

Hi Tom,

I'm wondering how you figure 300 ft.-lb. I understand the power spec for that engine is 145 hp.
HowStuffWorks "1971, 1972, 1973 Ford Mustang Specifications"

According to this calculator, you would have to realize that hp at 2,500 rpm in order to generate torque of 300 lb-ft.
Horsepower Design Equations Formulas Calculator - Torque Rotating

Usually with this design of gas engine, maximum hp is realized at around 4,000 or 4,500 rpm while hp bears a fairly linear relation to rpm, so the hp at 2,500 rpm would be 100 hp or so.

BTW my first car was a 1969 Chevy Nova with 250 ci inline six and three-speed automatic, and that car had plenty of power.

OK, I "misremembered" on the stock rating. From Hemmings:

The basic engine in most Mustangs was a 250-cu.in. inline six. This OHV engine, which also saw duty in Mavericks, used a 3.68 x 3.91-inch bore and stroke, had a 9.0:1 compression ratio, and breathed through a one-barrel Motorcraft carburetor to produce 145hp at 4,000 rpm and 232 foot-pounds of torque at 1,600 rpm

Note that rpm for peak torque - I told you it was a grunter ;-)

However, with a header and dual exhaust (and a few other tweaks, like later 70s electronic ignition), mine was putting out well over that hp and torque even before I hit the NOS ;-) Due to the header and dual exhaust, most people thought I had a 351C under the hood, and it drove like it too, especially once I put 4.11s in the rear.

[spwolf]

Originally Posted by donee

Hi Sp...,

The Prius throttles the engine up slowly, so it does not have to use enrichment (you know that black puff of smoke out the back of a BMW). When your starting from a stop, the engine is off. And it does takes about half a second to come on, and another few seconds to get to full power. That is the "off-the-line" slowness of the Prius.
In merging duels, however, this car will be the ultimate. Come down a ramp and have some adolescent not let you merge, and they wont know what hit em as traffic surges ahead. The 1.8 liter Prius should be like a rocket in the rolling, engine-on accelleration.

current prius does not... who knows what will prius with 1.8l have? New start/stop system from Toyota turns on engine in 0.04 seconds...